Interesting Physician Perspective On NPs - page 6

I am not an NP. I am a full time rapid response nurse at a teaching hospital. This morning I stopped in to residents office to update the night residents on what had happened with their patients and... Read More

  1. Visit  Cauliflower} profile page
    2
    I agree with the folks who think NPs and PAs should unite in their efforts. There is absolutely no point in bickering about which is superior, and I found the nursing model and medical model drastically different in philosophy and training. I am an RN who also went through a very rigorous, competitive PA program and here's what it was like:
    >1000 applicants for 50 spots
    20-21 graduate credits/ semester year round (very tough) for an MS
    classes 8a-5pm mon-friday
    taking some courses with medical students and having to compete for grades with them
    dissecting a cadaver down to the nerves and having to identify it all for exams
    working 10-12 hrs/day, 5-6 days/ week during rotations, including overnight calls
    having to present at grand rounds during every clinical rotation

    I appreciate that PA receives a generalist education, including clinical rotations in internal medicine, psych, women's health, ER, dermatology, plus electives. Unlike NPs, PAs don't have to pick a specialty before starting school----they learn it all, do clinical rotations in all of the fields, and then can apply to PA jobs in psych as easily as they can in cardiology. There were a variety of undergraduate majors represented in the student mix----music, biology, pre-med, literature, etc. as long as all of the science and math pre-reqs were met, which was also a very long list.

    Seen it from both sides.
    on eagles wings and VICEDRN like this.
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  3. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP} profile page
    0
    Quote from VICEDRN
    This entire post bewilders me. I have met other dnp types who believe the same line of malarkey but they all work in academics as it is so entirely and utterly not true. Mds are obviously at the top of the food chain as they set they control the entire formulary (and can use it too!), who gets hired and in what number and what protocols exist for any given patient population.On top of that, I think, as a practicing rn and future graduate student, I absolutely see a huge difference and I care because I will one day be among the graduate students. Of course, I want to pick the right role for me and of course, they are all different. And another thought...absolutely everyone know exactly what the food chain looks like, right downtown who gets what computer or chair. This "team work" nonsense is not real and yes, I think we need some kind of leadership role and structure.
    lol. I guess perhaps it may appear that way to you, as an outsider looking in. Rest assured, you are simply, as you say, bewildered. Once you are one of us, you'll see. Don't be discouraged, you can find parity.

    FYI, there is always leadership. In our outfit he is indeed a MD. Of course, he never completed a residency (he failed to match*) or actually provided a day of patient care after 4th year. He went to law school and then business school instead, and presently his formal working title is "CEO." He made $9 million in bonuses last year, so for a so called "failure,"* I guess he is doing OK. He found his strength and played to it. We all have/do. It is why NPs are paid the same base salary in the group as our physician colleagues, commensurate with experience. You may not land in a group this successful and egalitarian in philosophy, but I do encourage you not to sell yourself short. Don't settle. It is way too early for bitterness and cynicism my friend!

    Good luck in your studies, it will be worth it when you do get to be part of the "team."
  4. Visit  VICEDRN} profile page
    0
    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    lol. I guess perhaps it may appear that way to you, as an outsider looking in. Rest assured, you are simply, as you say, bewildered. Once you are one of us, you'll see. Don't be discouraged, you can find parity. FYI, there is always leadership. In our outfit he is indeed a MD. Of course, he never completed a residency (he failed to match*) or actually provided a day of patient care after 4th year. He went to law school and then business school instead, and presently his formal working title is "CEO." He made $9 million in bonuses last year, so for a so called "failure,"* I guess he is doing OK. He found his strength and played to it. We all have/do. It is why NPs are paid the same base salary in the group as our physician colleagues, commensurate with experience. You may not land in a group this successful and egalitarian in philosophy, but I do encourage you not to sell yourself short. Don't settle. It is way too early for bitterness and cynicism my friend! Good luck in your studies, it will be worth it when you do get to be part of the "team."
    It's not bitterness and cynicism. Once upon a time, I let someone sell me on nursing school instead of medical school. After all, nurses are the real life savers, right? Took me about 8 weeks to see through that nonsense. The truth is, I'm an idealist usually and look at the trouble it has brought me. Med school is likely out of the question since I have borrowed for two bachelors. I see what I think is really real for a large part of the country. You may have found a little piece of shangri la but I live in the Deep South and I am skeptical that a) what you say is true (but rather is what you idealize) and b) if it is, that this sort of place is few and far between. I have never seen an np or pa make anywhere near the same pay as an md nor participate in the development of protocols. If you see me on the flip side, I am hoping it will be as a pa or md/do. I never want to hear the word nurse associated with my name again.
  5. Visit  zenman} profile page
    0
    Quote from VICEDRN
    It's not bitterness and cynicism. Once upon a time, I let someone sell me on nursing school instead of medical school. After all, nurses are the real life savers, right? Took me about 8 weeks to see through that nonsense. The truth is, I'm an idealist usually and look at the trouble it has brought me. Med school is likely out of the question since I have borrowed for two bachelors. I see what I think is really real for a large part of the country. You may have found a little piece of shangri la but I live in the Deep South and I am skeptical that a) what you say is true (but rather is what you idealize) and b) if it is, that this sort of place is few and far between. I have never seen an np or pa make anywhere near the same pay as an md nor participate in the development of protocols. If you see me on the flip side, I am hoping it will be as a pa or md/do. I never want to hear the word nurse associated with my name again.
    Actually nurses are the real lifesavers. I'll leave it to others to explain why. And you think being able to develop protocols is something big?
  6. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP} profile page
    5
    Quote from VICEDRN
    It's not bitterness and cynicism. Once upon a time, I let someone sell me on nursing school instead of medical school. After all, nurses are the real life savers, right? Took me about 8 weeks to see through that nonsense. The truth is, I'm an idealist usually and look at the trouble it has brought me. Med school is likely out of the question since I have borrowed for two bachelors. I see what I think is really real for a large part of the country. You may have found a little piece of shangri la but I live in the Deep South and I am skeptical that a) what you say is true (but rather is what you idealize) and b) if it is, that this sort of place is few and far between. I have never seen an np or pa make anywhere near the same pay as an md nor participate in the development of protocols. If you see me on the flip side, I am hoping it will be as a pa or md/do. I never want to hear the word nurse associated with my name again.

    Deep south
    explains everything. My condolences.
    Nurse_Diane, silenced, myelin, and 2 others like this.
  7. Visit  AngelfireRN} profile page
    0
    Nothing wrong with the South. I can't imagine living anywhere else.
  8. Visit  PatMac10,RN} profile page
    0
    Quote from VICEDRN
    It's not bitterness and cynicism. Once upon a time, I let someone sell me on nursing school instead of medical school. After all, nurses are the real life savers, right? Took me about 8 weeks to see through that nonsense. The truth is, I'm an idealist usually and look at the trouble it has brought me. Med school is likely out of the question since I have borrowed for two bachelors. I see what I think is really real for a large part of the country. You may have found a little piece of shangri la but I live in the Deep South and I am skeptical that a) what you say is true (but rather is what you idealize) and b) if it is, that this sort of place is few and far between. I have never seen an np or pa make anywhere near the same pay as an md nor participate in the development of protocols. If you see me on the flip side, I am hoping it will be as a pa or md/do. I never want to hear the word nurse associated with my name again.
    Come to my school and the hospital I work at. We've had a whole 2 days lecture on nurses and their role In policy and protocol development. Because, more often than not, it will be nurses and other staff who carry out the said protocol, they are affected by protocols, so they are part of development of them.The CEO of the hospital where I'm employed is a nurse (not even an APRN) she has an MSN. She does a pretty good job. And I live in the South.
  9. Visit  AbeFrohman} profile page
    1
    There is a lot wrong with NP and PA scope of practice in the south, particularly Alabama, which has the most restricted scope of any state in the nation for NPs. Louisiana won't allow CRNAs to practice chronic pain management, even though CMS has decided that it is within their scope and can be reimbursed for it. Many more examples.
    wooh likes this.
  10. Visit  myelin} profile page
    0
    It absolutely amazes me how different NP scope of practice is state by state. It sounds like the south is one of the worst places to be. And the idea that nurses have no control over policy just makes me laugh. Tell that to my acute care CNS professor who spent 30 years working in the ICU at a level 1 trauma center... and yes, he has written many of the policies that both the floor nurses and providers (MDs, NPs, etc.) follow, as well as published in the field.
  11. Visit  uRNmyway} profile page
    0
    I don't get what everyone has against the South. There are ignorant, bigoted people everywhere, although it seems to be a stereotype mostly associated with the South...
  12. Visit  SycamoreGuy} profile page
    6
    Quote from Jeweles26
    I don't get what everyone has against the South. There are ignorant, bigoted people everywhere, although it seems to be a stereotype mostly associated with the South...
    In this case it is the very real resrictions southern states place on NP practice, and not the stereotypes you mentioned.
  13. Visit  zenman} profile page
    0
    Quote from SycamoreStudent
    In this case it is the very real resrictions southern states place on NP practice, and not the stereotypes you mentioned.
    That's right, plus the very low salaries.
  14. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP} profile page
    2
    5:21 pm by zenman

    Quote from SycamoreStudent
    In this case it is the very real resrictions southern states place on NP practice, and not the stereotypes you mentioned.

    That's right, plus the very low salaries.


    Yes, we are referring to practice restrictions, autonomy, salary issues, etc. I don't believe anyone was focusing on social or cultural matters unrelated to nursing/advanced practice nursing issues.

    silenced and PMFB-RN like this.


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