Interesting Physician Perspective On NPs - page 3

by PMFB-RN

19,407 Views | 96 Comments

I am not an NP. I am a full time rapid response nurse at a teaching hospital. This morning I stopped in to residents office to update the night residents on what had happened with their patients and what I had done. They were in... Read More


  1. 3
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** (sigh) No it won't be.
    Amazing all the misinformation is out there about this, especially by people posting on this board.
    Nurse_Diane, PMFB-RN, and zenman like this.
  2. 3
    Quote from Novo
    Personally I think NPs are less knowledgeable than PA's. PA school is essentially medschool-lite whereas NP's take a few pharmacology courses and some. Just my opinion though.
    A few pharmacology courses? How about:

    1. Major psychopathological disorders
    2. Pharmacology
    3. Psychopharmacology
    4. Diagnosis and Management I
    5. Diagnosis and Management II
    6. Physical Diagnosis
    7. Psych/Mental Health NP-Adult
    8. Psych/Mental Health NP-Adult
    9. Advanced pathophysiology I
    10. Advanced pathophysiology II
    11. Therapeutic Group Process
    12. Community Mental Health I
    13. Community Mental Health Nursing II
    14. Human Values and Health Care
    15. Research in Nursing
    16. Theories of Personality
    17. Social Forces and Nursing Practice
    18. Theoretical Foundations of Role Specialization
    silenced, rouqie, and Tinabeanrn like this.
  3. 0
    Quote from treejay
    On the contray, PAs have prescriptive authority in 50 states. Many of the states includes schedule II. Some states only schedule 3 and above. What is the state laws for NPs and scheulde IIs?
    My DEA is for schedule 2-5.
  4. 0
    Quote from zenman
    My DEA is for schedule 2-5.
    Of course. As is mine for PAs and NPs. But what is the outlook overall for all 50 states?
  5. 1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** (sigh) No it won't be.
    Alright, already, I stand corrected, sorry for being wrong. It is strongly recommended but has not been mandated. I researched this more and found I had misspoken, sorry to have been misinformed.
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  6. 0
    PAs follow the physician model, NPs follow the nursing model. A PA needs a master's and PA school whereas the NP needs a MSN and NP schooling. NPs actually have more education than PAs do, yet in my state PAs could write scripts years before NPs could. NPs can operate independently where PAs can't. I worked with a MD who trusted his PA enough to let him see new pts, preop visits and postop followups, order testing and do CT reviews. Another MD I worked for would only let his NP see established followups and she couldn't order allergy testing or tests beyond CT sinus or CXR. A lot of it depends on the doc. Both the PA and NP I've worked with were great!!
  7. 0
    Quote from TracyE78
    PAs follow the physician model, NPs follow the nursing model. A PA needs a master's and PA school
    *** Actually not the case. A PA can be trained at any degree level, including the associates degree. There are a number of community colleges that offer associates degree RN and PA programs. A lot of PA programs are bachelors degree programs. So far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be the same angst among PAs over the different paths to entry as there is with nurses.
    Here is an example of a junior college associates degree PA programs website:
    Physician Assistant Program
  8. 2
    NPs have a higher salary than PAs. Plus they can join faculty as a professor at a university. The background in nursing, and ability to branch out with their own clinic. I would like to earn my DNP then open an alternative complementary therapy womens clinic :-) This is one that I agree with the MDs on. Come on you nurses...Nurses Rule!!!!!
    KbmRN and cardiacrocks like this.
  9. 1
    Quote from Patti_RN
    States differ on what PAs can/ cannot do; ditto for NPs. I believe all (or most) states require PAs to work under a physician, some have the same requirements for NPs; some states don't allow NPs prescriptive authority, but most do; some states don't allow PAs to prescribe.... different states, different rules and scopes of practice. But, generally, NPs have more autonomy and a broader scope of practice than the PAs.
    NP's have achieved prescriptive authority in all 50 states.

    "By 2006, NPs in all 50 states and the District of Columbia had achieved some degree of prescriptive authority.28 NPs in 11 states may now prescribe drugs independently without physician involvement. The remaining states allow NPs to prescribe drugs with ranging levels of physician oversight. In 34 states, for instance, prescribing NPs must first secure a written prescriptive protocol with a physician. In ten states, physician supervision or collaboration is required only where NPs seek to prescribe drugs.29 NPs in these states are otherwise authorized to practice independently."

    http://futurehealth.ucsf.edu/Content...Discussion.pdf
    InfirmiereJolie likes this.
  10. 0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Actually not the case. A PA can be trained at any degree level, including the associates degree. There are a number of community colleges that offer associates degree RN and PA programs. A lot of PA programs are bachelors degree programs. So far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be the same angst among PAs over the different paths to entry as there is with nurses.
    Here is an example of a junior college associates degree PA programs website:
    Physician Assistant Program
    That is an exception, rather than the norm. If you check the majority of PA programs, a bachelor's degree is required for entry, along with a host of science pre-reqs as well as required Patient Care Experience hours. It's not like Joe Blow is jumping into a PA program on a whim.

    The PA school I want to attend requires an extensive science background and even states that a science/health related degree is preferred. Numerous pre-reqs (Pharmacology, A&P, Organic Chem, Bio Chem, Stats, Calculus, Nutrition, Microbiology, etc.) & at least 2,500 PCE hours to be considered. (Requirement is 100 PCE hours, but students accepted into last cohort all had 2,500 or above). So, in order to get the PCE hours, you would need to be an RN, EMT/Paramedic, Phlebotomist, CNA, PCT, etc.

    Also remember that many NP programs have an accelerated RN/MSN if you already have a bachelors in a non-related field. I don't see why people "bash" this with PAs and gloss over the same fact with NP school. (Not saying you are bashing, just in general...)

    I would love to see more synergism between the NP & PA role. They fill a much-needed gap in medical care and both play an important role. I think the issue is that the lines of responsibility are so blurred between the two and what a PA/NP can or cannot do varies so much between states, it creates a lot of confusion & misconception with the public.


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