Everyone is in NP school !

  1. About half of the nurses in my Hospital are in NP school , about 75% of the RNs in the Atlanta area hospitals are in NP school. Where are the jobs to support the 17 millions new NPs in the graduation pipe line ? I have thought about NP school, I just can't see the job availability in the future. How is your neck of the woods ?
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  2. 90 Comments

  3. by   Jules A
    Its getting horrible in my area and breaks my heart. Being a NP used to be for the most part a group of excellent, motivated RNs who wanted to further their knowledge and scope. Now it seems everyone thinks they are NP material, that it is the quick route to big bucks and a cushy M-F day schedule. Schools are supporting this by having minimal if any admission requirements. The numbers are staggering, wages are dropping and the quality of many of the new grads in my opinion is not good. Seriously there are some who I wondered how they even got through the BSN program and now are attempting to diagnose and prescribe medication for children. Yikes. My guess is we continue seeing an increase in the "help I failed my boards", "why can't I find a job?" and "I'm a NP working for $85,000 a year" posts in the future.
  4. by   Hangin'On,RN
    It seems like a lot of the nurses I know have either graduated, are in, or are thinking about NP school. Apparently, it's the golden ticket!

    Here's a really interesting thing that recently happened where I live: My job as a school nurse (and all my fellow school nurses in my county) through the health dept. was cut, and we are being replaced by nurse practitioners employed by a local hospital. I'm not sure they are hiring enough for each school though, and the salary seems rather low for a NP. I've never heard of anything like this before. We're all a bit baffled by it.
  5. by   shibaowner
    There are plenty of NP jobs, but not necessarily in places like Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc. New NP grads should be prepared to look for work in underserved areas like inner cities, small cities and towns, and rural areas. If there is a glut of new grad NPs, employers will look at things like the NP school and relevant work experience. The cream of the crop will get jobs and the rest will not. Interestingly, we now have a glut of lawyers. However, I think new law grads from schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc are not having trouble finding a good job.
  6. by   CKPM2RN
    Not me! I really want to be "just" an RN for the rest of my career. They can have the headache and extra paperwork.
  7. by   offlabel
    Quote from Hangin'On,RN
    It seems like a lot of the nurses I know have either graduated, are in, or are thinking about NP school. Apparently, it's the golden ticket!

    Here's a really interesting thing that recently happened where I live: My job as a school nurse (and all my fellow school nurses in my county) through the health dept. was cut, and we are being replaced by nurse practitioners employed by a local hospital. I'm not sure they are hiring enough for each school though, and the salary seems rather low for a NP. I've never heard of anything like this before. We're all a bit baffled by it.
    Never thought of that consequence of making so many NP's. NP as entry level practice?
  8. by   TicTok411
    Certain areas are saturated with NPs. Many larger cities are being more selective looking at years of NP experience and most posted jobs require 2-3 years of experience. I have also heard about s few employers who will not consider online graduates. The glut of new graduates has dropped the salaries for new hires and you hear more and more stories of poorly prepared graduates. It will get much worse I am afraid.
  9. by   shibaowner
    Quote from Atl-Murse
    About half of the nurses in my Hospital are in NP school , about 75% of the RNs in the Atlanta area hospitals are in NP school. Where are the jobs to support the 17 millions new NPs in the graduation pipe line ? I have thought about NP school, I just can't see the job availability in the future. How is your neck of the woods ?
    What on earth are you talking about? There are not "17 millions new NPs in the graduation pipe line."
  10. by   Jules A
    Quote from shibaowner
    What on earth are you talking about? There are not "17 millions new NPs in the graduation pipe line."
    Damn close.

    "The primary care NP and PA workforces are projected to grow far more rapidly than the physician supply.

    The supply of primary care NPs is projected to increase by 30 percent, from 55,400 in 2010 to 72,100 in 2020. The supply of primary care PAs is projected to increase by 58 percent, from 27,700 to 43,900 over the same period.

    Assuming that NPs and PAs provide the same proportion of services in 2020 that they did in 2010, the combined demand for NPs and PAs would increase by only 17 percent. If NPs and PAs are used to provide a greater proportion of primary care services, their projected demand will be higher."

    From:

    Projecting the Supply and Demand for Primary Care Practitioners Through 22 | Bureau of Health Workforce
  11. by   TicTok411
    Quote from Jules A
    Damn close.

    "The primary care NP and PA workforces are projected to grow far more rapidly than the physician supply.

    The supply of primary care NPs is projected to increase by 30 percent, from 55,400 in 2010 to 72,100 in 2020. The supply of primary care PAs is projected to increase by 58 percent, from 27,700 to 43,900 over the same period.

    Assuming that NPs and PAs provide the same proportion of services in 2020 that they did in 2010, the combined demand for NPs and PAs would increase by only 17 percent. If NPs and PAs are used to provide a greater proportion of primary care services, their projected demand will be higher."

    From:

    Projecting the Supply and Demand for Primary Care Practitioners Through 22 | Bureau of Health Workforce
    There are gonna be lots of new graduates waiting for the phone to ring. I don't think they should give up their day job.
  12. by   Owlgal
    Honestly, I was shocked at how low NP pay is now. I'm looking long-term at wanting part-time hours, and that better fits the NP role versus the management role that I'm currently in. Otherwise, I might have stuck with management. Right now I'm comfortably in the 80's and have held positions just above $100K in the past. But, you can't do part-time management. And I certainly don't want to make my career of working nights and weekends just to get shift differentials.

    I live in a rural, midwest location. We haven't seen the hit to the job market yet, but I think it's coming.
  13. by   shibaowner
    NP pay is partly based on location. You did not state your location or what NP pay is in your location. In the major cities, new grad NPs make 90K to 120K, depending on the city. I am a new grad NP working in a RURAL Calif city and started at 90K with raises to 140K within 18 months, based on performance (patient load). I don't know of any new grad RNs who can expect that kind of pay. In addition, if you are an RN in management, you will likely not make as much $ as you are right now if you were a new grad NP, because the new grad NP is starting at the bottom of the NP profession.
  14. by   shibaowner
    Quote from Jules A
    Damn close.

    "The primary care NP and PA workforces are projected to grow far more rapidly than the physician supply.

    The supply of primary care NPs is projected to increase by 30 percent, from 55,400 in 2010 to 72,100 in 2020. The supply of primary care PAs is projected to increase by 58 percent, from 27,700 to 43,900 over the same period.

    Assuming that NPs and PAs provide the same proportion of services in 2020 that they did in 2010, the combined demand for NPs and PAs would increase by only 17 percent. If NPs and PAs are used to provide a greater proportion of primary care services, their projected demand will be higher."

    From:

    Projecting the Supply and Demand for Primary Care Practitioners Through 22 | Bureau of Health Workforce
    Thank you for the link. I reviewed the information and still fail to see that there are "17 millions new NPs in the graduation pipe line."

    Let's take a look at what this source actually said:

    1. "If today's system for delivering primary care remained fundamentally the same in 2020, there will be a projected shortage of 20,400 primary care physicians."

    2. "The supply of primary care NPs is projected to increase by 30 percent, from 55,400 in 2010 to 72,100 in 2020. The supply of primary care PAs is projected to increase by 58 percent, from 27,700 to 43,900 over the same period."

    3. "Assuming that NPs and PAs provide the same proportion of services in 2020 that they did in 2010, the combined demand for NPs and PAs would increase by only 17 percent."

    4. "Under a scenario in which the rapidly growing NP and PA supply can effectively be integrated, the shortage of 20,400 physicians in 2020 could be reduced to 6,400 PCPs."

    5. "If fully utilized, the percent of primary care services provided by NPs and PAs will grow from 23 percent in 2010 to 28 percent in 2020. Physicians would remain the dominant providers of primary care, only decreasing from 77 percent of the primary care services in 2010 to 72 percent in 2020."

    Basically, the article says that if NPs and PAs were utilized more in primary care, then the PCP MD shortage would be eased. I don't see anything in this article that states there is an oversupply of primary care NPs.

    In addition, this article is only talking about primary care. Not all NP students are going into primary care. About half of NP students will go into acute care, psych, management, etc. "As of 2012, there were an estimated 154,000 licensed NPs in the U.S., 127,000 of whom were providing patient care. Slightly under half of those worked in primary care."

    Where are the "17 millions of NPs in the pipeline?" I'm scratching my head here.

    I am disturbed by what seems to be an almost gleeful expectation of the apocalypse for new grad NPs among some posters on this forum. That is doing a disservice to our profession as it may scare away talented candidates. We will always need excellent new grad NPs and RNs coming into the workforce.

    There may be an oversupply of NPs in certain areas. This is a distribution problem, not a supply problem. There are many smaller cities and towns, inner cities, and rural areas that desperately need primary care providers. New grad NPs must be prepared to move in order to get their first job.

    Perhaps there are too many NP students and schools, although I have yet to see anyone provide evidence of this, beyond anecdotal accounts. So what? Since we live in a capitalist economic system, the crap students will not get hired, so the crap schools will go out of business. The excellent new grads from good schools will get jobs. Problem solved.

    After engaging in this dialogue thread, I would advise undergrad students to take Economics as part of their General Ed electives.

    Projecting the Supply and Demand for Primary Care Practitioners Through 22 | Bureau of Health Workforce
    https://www.aacn.nche.edu/downloads/...PC-Article.pdf

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