2015 DNP Requirement for APNs

scwolf · Mar 18, 2013

what I would like to see is more residencies and fellowships being offered to new grad NPs like me. I think that will come in the years to come when the healthcare act kicks in next year in 2012.

I so agree! I hope you're right, takotsubo82, that they are coming. It's great to have schooling to a point but as an NP hopeful, what I'd really like is more hands-on experience with mentoring.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · Mar 18, 2013

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I was a critical care nurse for over 20 years before going back to school. It hasn't made an iota of difference in my FNP practice. I had a slight advantage in school over classmates that didn't already know normal labs values and a cardiac assessment inside and out, but the playing field was more than leveled by the time we were six weeks in. RN and APN practice is simply so utterly different that RN experience lends almost zero to APN practice. No one wants to believe that 20 years of their life was wasted, lol, but there you have it. It doesn't mean a hill of beans for what I do now. Meaningless. I could have been selling cars, and I'd still be a novice NP, just as I am now, with less than 4 years experience. Having been a nurse for all those years doesn't make me any less a novice NP now. It makes me a novice NP who was a nurse instead of a car salesman. And that means squat. Thems the facts, and that's that.

What I got out of it, which I may also have gotten from selling cars, is that I know how to "deal" with people, I take abuse from no one, and I am very comfortable with people from all walks of life. I will coddle them if necessary, or calmly throw them out on their ear if necessary. I can do tough love, and can do good cop/bad cop, I can listen well, smile when I hate their guts, and I have a perfect poker face. I also have a keen sense of smell. That's about it. I am not a better NP for any of that. I am a wiser adult because I'm not 30 years old, and I'm not impulsive anymore, but no, not a better NP.

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 18, 2013

What I got out of it, which I may also have gotten from selling cars, is that I know how to "deal" with people, I take abuse from no one, and I am very comfortable with people from all walks of life. I will coddle them if necessary, or calmly throw them out on their ear if necessary. I can do tough love, and can do good cop/bad cop, I can listen well, smile when I hate their guts, and I have a perfect poker face. I also have a keen sense of smell. That's about it. I am not a better NP for any of that. I am a wiser adult because I'm not 30 years old, and I'm not impulsive anymore, but no, not a better NP.

MY hospital has NP students from two different programs doing clinicals. One if a direct entry masters program where the students have not RN experience. the other is a DNP NP program that requires 2 years or more of RN practice. I notice one big difference between them.

The direct entry grads all fawn over the physicians and never question any diagnosis or order the resident gives. The DNP students DO question the physicians (all residents at night) when the order don't make sence. I think the direct entry NP students never learned that physicians, especialy residents, DO make mistakes and DO give inappropiate orders and MUST be questioned when they do so.

Due to my position as full time rapid response RN and the relationship I have with our attending physicians I often get a "heads up" about certain residents who will be covering the night shift from the attending physicians. Don't get me wrong, most of the residents are very smart and a majority are really good, but a few are not and I usually get a heads up when those who concern the attending are coming on for their two weeks of night shift cross cover duty. The NP students also do night shift for a few weeks and I see their interaction with patients and residents.

kalevra, BSN, RN · Mar 19, 2013

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I was a critical care nurse for over 20 years before going back to school. It hasn't made an iota of difference in my FNP practice. I had a slight advantage in school over classmates that didn't already know normal labs values and a cardiac assessment inside and out, but the playing field was more than leveled by the time we were six weeks in. RN and APN practice is simply so utterly different that RN experience lends almost zero to APN practice. No one wants to believe that 20 years of their life was wasted, lol, but there you have it. It doesn't mean a hill of beans for what I do now. Meaningless. I could have been selling cars, and I'd still be a novice NP, just as I am now, with less than 4 years experience. Having been a nurse for all those years doesn't make me any less a novice NP now. It makes me a novice NP who was a nurse instead of a car salesman. And that means squat. Thems the facts, and that's that.
What I got out of it, which I may also have gotten from selling cars, is that I know how to "deal" with people, I take abuse from no one, and I am very comfortable with people from all walks of life. I will coddle them if necessary, or calmly throw them out on their ear if necessary. I can do tough love, and can do good cop/bad cop, I can listen well, smile when I hate their guts, and I have a perfect poker face. I also have a keen sense of smell. That's about it. I am not a better NP for any of that. I am a wiser adult because I'm not 30 years old, and I'm not impulsive anymore, but no, not a better NP.

Thanks for your honesty, I think I am beginning to see your perspective on the issue.

So in application, if new grads cant find jobs right after getting their BSN, they should instead go into NP. This way they get ahead of the curve, they get their NP right around when Obama care takes full effect and millions of people need primary care providers. Many of whom will be NPs/PAs.

Makes sense.

CCNP-FL · Mar 19, 2013

I think we see now how the DNP will become a requirement, by schools who want 2 more years of tuition.

Amen! Unfortunately.............

elkpark · Mar 19, 2013

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I was a critical care nurse for over 20 years before going back to school. It hasn't made an iota of difference in my FNP practice. I had a slight advantage in school over classmates that didn't already know normal labs values and a cardiac assessment inside and out, but the playing field was more than leveled by the time we were six weeks in. RN and APN practice is simply so utterly different that RN experience lends almost zero to APN practice. No one wants to believe that 20 years of their life was wasted, lol, but there you have it. It doesn't mean a hill of beans for what I do now.

I don't question that that was your experience as a critical care nurse going into an FNP program (two specialties that could be considered exact opposites of each other, which may be a factor in this), but that may not be everyone's experience. I went through my psych CNS grad program as an experienced psych RN with two direct-entry student classmates, and I watched them really flounder and struggle to grasp concepts and skills that any RN with any psych experience would have already known. I have also precepted one psych graduate student who was an RN with experience other than psych nursing, and she, also, really struggled and floundered trying to grasp just the most basic concepts of psychiatric advanced practice that would have been second nature to any RN with generalist psych experience.

However, I do recognize that that doesn't mean there is necessarily any difference in outcome over the long haul. For what it's worth, my direct-entry classmates ended up not working as psych CNSs; one of them went into an administrative role almost immediately, and the other went into a different line of work entirely (non-nursing).

myelin · Mar 19, 2013

Hmm. I'm in a direct entry psych NP program, but I have an extensive psych background, especially in conducting assessments and differential diagnosis. (non-nursing). I'm interested in seeing what the learning curve will be like.

scwolf · Mar 20, 2013

This issue is making me crazy as I try to plan my nursing schooling. I may (if I get in) have the option of an entry-level MSN program (I'm a second bacc) but it's a CNL program not an NP. (Unfortunately, I didn't sort out that I wanted to go for my NP until the deadlines of this year's entry-level NP programs were past.) My other options are BSN programs. I'd honestly prefer the BSN program but if they amp up the NP requirements to doctorate when, or soon after, I graduate then I'm out of luck. I'll have to spend 2 more years getting my MSN before I can even start a DNP. If I do the CNL MSN, then -- if I understand right -- I could get my DNP in one or two years. Isn't that true?

I understand that the DNP is just a recommendation at this point but several schools I was considering for entry-level MSN (NP) have just pulled their programs and are replacing them with DNP programs instead. SFSU, Univ. of Vermont and Greenville all did. I'm wondering if the schools are going to make this thing happen, whether we like it or not. If they pull all of the Master's NP programs, we will have to go the DNP route.

I welcome anyone's advice on the best route to an NP for a (ahem) mature 2nd baccalaureate student like me.

dt70 · Mar 20, 2013

Seen many schools now offering Bsn to dnp.

Seems a little crazy going from bachelors to doctorate, but if that's the requirement you have no choice.

Saw an article today about doctors having group appointments with patients.

Maybe this will help fnp's because there's no way I will be participating in any group doctors appointments.

It gives me an image from schinlder's list where all the Jews had to strip in front of each other.

elkpark · Mar 20, 2013

Seen many schools now offering Bsn to dnp.
Seems a little crazy going from bachelors to doctorate, but if that's the requirement you have no choice.

(Actually, that's a fairly standard and traditional situation in some (most?) other academic disciplines, that individuals go from baccalaureate degree to doctorate. None of my (many) doctorally-prepared friends have Master's degrees.)

priorities2 · Mar 21, 2013

I wonder if MSN programs will become more competitive as they become fewer in number. I'm scheduled to graduate with a BSN in May 2015 and am nervous that there will be so few Master's level programs left, as all schools think it's more lucrative to only offer DNP...

PMFB-RN, RN · Mar 21, 2013

I wonder if MSN programs will become more competitive as they become fewer in number. I'm scheduled to graduate with a BSN in May 2015 and am nervous that there will be so few Master's level programs left, as all schools think it's more lucrative to only offer DNP...

I expect so. There are 5 CRNA programs in our area, 4 masters programs and one DNP. A friend of mine closly accociated with the DNP CRNA program at the University of Minnesota tells me that the qualiety and quanity of their applicants dropped off considerably when they swithced over from a 24 month MSN program. They didn't add a single clinical hour or clinical related class when they changed to DNP.