Hiring experienced nurses vs hiring new graduates

[edogs334]

As a recent graduate, I've noticed that many hospitals- especially the large academic systems that everyone wants to work for- hire few new graduates while continuing to post umpteen positions for experienced nurses. One hospital I looked at was even offering several thousand dollars in hiring bonuses to nurses who had >2 years of experience. Hence, if hospitals still have a need for nurses, then why have many of them developed a moderate allergy to new graduates? I know new graduates are initially a liability to health care organizations and are expensive to train. That's probably one of the reasons why, in this economy, hospitals have restricted how many graduates they hire per year. I still don't understand, however, why many hospitals continue to want to hire experienced nurses while basically closing their doors to the majority of new graduates? If they claim that they don't have the money to hire graduate staff, then where does the money to hire experienced staff come from? I think that the aforementioned hiring practice is quite myopic, because: 1)there are only so many experienced nurses to go around and I'm sure many of them aren't moving; and 2)when the economy gets better, nurses who came out of retirement will retire, nurses who work FT will go back to per-diem status, and the baby boomers will begin to retire in droves. Hence, I dare say that nursing executives who engage in this hiring practice will be in a hiring conundrum in a few years. So instead of severely restricting the number of new graduates hired, why don't nursing executives make a more concerted effort to recruit and retain the current graduates of today? Why don't hospitals turn more of current nursing vacancies into new graduate positions? That way, those new graduates would not only be able to fill needs for experienced nurses (within at least 1 year), but would also be able to act as preceptors for other recent graduates down the line. I'm sure there is a lot of information regarding this issue that I don't know, so any information you may have from a management perspective would be appreciated. I wrote this posting to seek out information, not to be one of many of whine about the lack of jobs available to people like me.

[nursepass]

Well what all of you are saying is true but my question is what are we the new graduates going to do to change this situations....and also if new graduat are not hired early after school ,how are we going to get the 2 and 3 years of experience the hospitals want?

[SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN]

I think there is some confusion in this thread by those that are complaining and report being experienced nurses…. Trust me, I know rejection in nursing. I have applied to multiple (I lost count) positions in an effort to break into management. I have gained a lot of insight going through the process. One thing I learned that is very evident, I cannot blame others for the reason I did not get a job. So, in this case, you should not blame new grads!

As experienced nurses, the expectation of you is higher than that of a new grad, which is fair. Thus, you cannot apply for positions similar to the way a new grad does so. Hiring mangers hire new grads and look at them with a different lens. Thus, you are not competing with them. You need to show that your professional experience will enhance and benefit your new manager and co-workers. New grads just need to show signs-of-life and a license (Just kidding). In other words, if you are not landing nursing jobs outside of your specialty, try something different.

Applying for positions the old fashion way is not how to get a job any more especially in the competitive field of nursing. You may find that you will need to physically go to the hiring managers and get your face seen and your resume placed in his/her hands because the HR filter will not allow you to apply for the job. Others of you will need to network and meet the friends or trusted colleagues of hiring mangers (this includes staff that are already working the floor who can recommend you as a potential co-worker) in order to land an interview or to be provided with an opportunity.

I understand that some of you posted that you get interviews but no jobs. OK, why? What happened in your interview? And/or what are you are missing? Why did HR and/or the hiring manager go with a different candidate?

Last but not least, as experienced nurses we have a reputation. What is your reputation? Do you even know? If not, figure it out. Your reputation may be preventing you from moving on in your career. Good luck.

[kayern]

Can we agree to disagree? As a Manager who does a lot of hiring and interviewing, I would not expect an experienced nurse, say in L&D applying for M/S, to progress any differently than a new grad, except maybe in time management and delegation skills. A new discipline is a new beginning, so in my opinion, an experienced nurse with no M/S experience is at the same level as a new grad!

Can we agree to disagree? As a Manager who does a lot of hiring and interviewing, I would not expect an experienced nurse, say in L&D applying for M/S, to progress any differently than a new grad, except maybe in time management and delegation skills. A new discipline is a new beginning, so in my opinion, an experienced nurse with no M/S experience is at the same level as a new grad!

A new beginning, perhaps, right up until you get an unstable patient, a violent patient, or a code...

There are a great many "soft skills" that come only from experience, even if said is with a distinctly different patient population.

[SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN]

Can we agree to disagree? As a Manager who does a lot of hiring and interviewing, I would not expect an experienced nurse, say in L&D applying for M/S, to progress any differently than a new grad, except maybe in time management and delegation skills. A new discipline is a new beginning, so in my opinion, an experienced nurse with no M/S experience is at the same level as a new grad!

There are other hiring managers who think as you, so I respect your perspective. However, I suspect that most just want to give an experienced nurse lower pay when he/she makes the switch. In fact, I was hired by hiring managers who decided to give me the lowest pay because I was new to the specialty, but I am far from being a New Grad.

Similar to that of music-in-my-heart's point, experienced nurses already know how to think and be nurses, so we deserve to be seen a little different when hiring us. Also, I suspect that your preceptors agree more with me, than they do with you. In fact, I am willing to bet that your preceptors treat your new hire experienced nurses (outside of your specialty) differently than they do the New Grads.

For example, although experienced nurses who need time to learn the new specialty, this is not what is being provided. Your preceptors have it in his/her mind to give the experienced nurse x-number of days to catch-on and to show competency no matter what number of months you have given him/her. Also, their expectation of them is higher than that of a New Grad and at times can be unrealistic.

For some examples of what I am talking about, read over many of the posts of experienced nurses who were fired within orientation of a new unit/specialty because he/she did not catch on quickly enough or who decided to return to a former job because he/she was being eaten-alive by nurses in a new specialty/department.

Unfortunately, this is so common place compared to your idea of experienced nurses being treated like New Grads (given time to learn the specialty), that I think you should make an extra effort to be sure that your preceptors share your same vision of orienting all nurses new to your specialty. Good luck.

[icuRNmaggie, BSN, RN]

I've been in clinical practice and nursing education (ADN and BSN programs) for almost 25 years now, and I think we really need to examine how we're educating nurses -- the "system" seems to be reaching a breaking point.

We had two fourth year students in the ICU recently who said I am not allowed to do anything related to medication needles or blood. Not even a FS. Cant check a blood transfusion, can't start an IV or draw blood or change a central line drsg. So they assessed, did baths, chart checks and we cosigned their assessments.

Therein lies the problem. Even if you have the time to help them practice skills, they can't. They do not receive any valid clinical experience in my opinion and apart from assessment skills have to function as secretaries and CNAs.

It should come as no surprise that most young nurses are terrified for their first year due to a lack of any meaningful experience.

I think it's cruel.

[elkpark]

We had two fourth year students in the ICU recently who said I am not allowed to do anything related to medication needles or blood. Not even a FS. Cant check a blood transfusion, can't start an IV or draw blood or change a central line drsg. So they assessed, did baths, chart checks and we cosigned their assessments.

Therein lies the problem. Even if you have the time to help them practice skills, they can't. They do not receive any valid clinical experience in my opinion and apart from assessment skills have to function as secretaries and CNAs.

It should come as no surprise that most young nurses are terrified for their first year due to a lack of any meaningful experience.

I think it's cruel.

In my experience as a nursing school faculty member (in ADN and BSN programs), it is the clinical facilities (hospitals) that set the strict limitations on what the students are allowed to do in clinical. The school faculty would love for the students to have a broader range of clinical opportunities and experiences, but they are in the hospitals as guests, and have to abide by the hospitals' limits (or risk losing that facility as a clinical site altogether).

I agree this is a big problem in nursing education.

[MissJessRN]

Thanks MBARNBSN! I have no issue with being treated as a new grad on a new unit however...I would hope my acute care nursing experience would help me get hired into another specialty...and not be at the bottom of the pile and lower than a new grad in terms of hiring because although I have worked in a different unit...i do have transferable skills that new grads do not. Im in NYC and the only ways to be hired into a unit specialty is to be hired as a new grad...b/c once you are experienced, all open houses and face to face events are for experienced RNs in a particular specialty. There are no chances for an experienced RN to change specialties ...as specialties prefer taking on a new grad than an RN changing specialties. The unit I am in is postpartum/antepartum is nice however i feel it is very routine and i would like to be on a more "critical care" type unit. On my current unit i feel I cannot advance in knowledge anymore b/c i have learned everything there is to learn and i would like to be more challenged.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

In my experience as a nursing school faculty member (in ADN and BSN programs), it is the clinical facilities (hospitals) that set the strict limitations on what the students are allowed to do in clinical. The school faculty would love for the students to have a broader range of clinical opportunities and experiences, but they are in the hospitals as guests, and have to abide by the hospitals' limits (or risk losing that facility as a clinical site altogether).

I agree this is a big problem in nursing education.

THIS can also be an issue between clinical groups and or programs within the same SCHOOL!

There is a current new nurse at my job who is from my alma mater who had a VASTLY different experience than I did; meaning, no exposure to IV therapy/IVP push, proper med administration, taking up to 4 patients, charge nurse shadowing and management-my clinical experiences were vastly different...I was in an accelerated program with second degree non-clinical and healthcare experienced students, and even traditional students while she was in the traditional program.

I can go on about how the accelerated program out performs in clinicals and on the NCLEX while the traditional program are having difficulties, but I won't.

There definitely needs to be a three pronged overhaul moving forward.

[fifita2010]

I have an out of the box suggestion for nursing education. Why not take a few units, which may be easy to find in hospitals that have closed units, and make them nursing education units. The patients, who would not be very high risk, would know they were on this kind of unit, that their "nurses "were students supervised by a nurse educator. The insurance companies /hospitals could give an financial incentive. Similar to going to the dental school for dental work.

Each unit opened would be a different level. The student would have a FULL assignment. When she graduated that floor she would go to the next level unit and so on.

This way the attitudes would shift, because the students are somewhere in between the real world of nursing and the student world.

They would get the real world experience they need to put on their resume. The competition would be fierce to enter this type of education because only the serious and the cream of the crop would be selected.

Then studies could be done on the differences in this real world education vs traditional. The way nursing has changed (43 years for me)I think changing how we educate nurses may be part of the solution.

[enuf_already]

The student would have a FULL assignment.

They would get the real world experience they need to put on their resume.

Then studies could be done on the differences in this real world education vs traditional.

I quoted snippets of your post.

Years ago there were actually programs that taught nurses how be functional in a hospital setting on day 1 of their job. They were called hospital based diploma programs. A few still exist but the ADN vs BSN argument has many people forgetting diploma grads are still around.

Nurses of these programs were still new nurses but came to work knowing how to give injections, IVP meds, hang blood and care for complex patients because they did it frequently in school. We also took a full team of patients on night shift while in school so we knew how to handle a full patient load and team lead. People who couldn't function didn't pass the program to move on to failure at their first job.

[elkpark]

I have an out of the box suggestion for nursing education. Why not take a few units, which may be easy to find in hospitals that have closed units, and make them nursing education units. The patients, who would not be very high risk, would know they were on this kind of unit, that their "nurses "were students supervised by a nurse educator. The insurance companies /hospitals could give an financial incentive. Similar to going to the dental school for dental work.

Each unit opened would be a different level. The student would have a FULL assignment. When she graduated that floor she would go to the next level unit and so on.

This way the attitudes would shift, because the students are somewhere in between the real world of nursing and the student world.

They would get the real world experience they need to put on their resume. The competition would be fierce to enter this type of education because only the serious and the cream of the crop would be selected.

Then studies could be done on the differences in this real world education vs traditional. The way nursing has changed (43 years for me)I think changing how we educate nurses may be part of the solution.

I agree with enuf. We used to have a similar model of nursing education, the hospital-based diploma schools, and TPTB in nursing worked diligently to drive them out of business as much as possible, to move nursing education into colleges and universities, and to focus on theory and "critical thinking" instead of a solid clinical foundation. And now we're seeing the results of a few decades of that approach.