Why so closed minded? WHY? - page 7

Worked with a male nurse the other night. This nurse is agency and has worked at our facility for some time. He always gives good pt care and is helpful to the aides and other nurses. As I took V.S.... Read More

  1. by   LasVegasRN
    Originally posted by researchrabbit
    And Las Vegas, I am TRULY sorry you had that experience. I will never understand why people can't see past the outside bits which are the LEAST important part of anyone!
    Thanks, researchrabbit. It wasn't the first time, and it certainly won't be the last. Regardless, I don't let it change my belief that we all bleed red - and love is colorblind.
    :angel2:
  2. by   fab4fan
    Originally posted by caroladybelle
    I do not have a preference of gender in regards to my nurses, but I do have a preference of females as far as the MDs/NPs that provide care for me. While I currently have a male Internist, he has done a great deal to earn my trust.

    I was a virgin (and not merely technically) until I was 25. I never had a male MD that didn't express surprise (Are you sure you know what sex is?), condescention (You are too pretty for that.), or make rude comments in regards to this. They were also rather rude and less than gentle w/pap smears (It doesn't hurt that much). Female health care providers have always!!!! been kinder.
    Same here. The first time I saw my GYN was when I was 19y...I was terrified. He was very kind a patient, and did a lot to earn my trust.

    After several years, a female OB/GYN moved into the area, and so many of my coworkers raved about how great she was, so the next time I needed an exam, I went to her instead of my usual doctor. It was the most painful exam I'd ever had; worse was that she kept snapping at me to "relax". After that, I decided that there was no reason to change doctors...so it was back to the original doctor for me, and he's been my doctor for 20y (with the exception of that one year).

    However, I don't think any explaination is needed if someone prefers to have a nurse of the same gender. We're not here to advance a personal agenda...obviously Mark, you are doing what you love and it sounds like you are successful. No one is interfering with your employment. So what does it matter if a nurse says she'd feel more comfortable with a nurse of the same gender during L & D or a gyn exam. We need to stop looking at fellow nurses who happen to be patients as nurses first...they are patients first, with the same fears and needs as our non-nurse patients. We need to stop burdening them with expectations we wouldn't impose on our non-nurse patients.
  3. by   Dayray
    Knock, knock any one home?

    Doesn't this whole I prefer a female to a male even sound a little sexist to you? I mean do you guys really think it has nothing to do with discrimination? Or do you realize that it is in fact discrimination and keep trying to come up with reasons to justify it? If that is the case then acknowledgment of that fact would at least be progress.

    Please say it with me:
    "I discriminate against male nurses"

    There now that was your first step to recovery.
    Last edit by Dayray on Aug 8, '02
  4. by   LasVegasRN
    Sorry, dayray, but John Q Public does not see it as the same. I realize YOU and Mark may feel that it is gender discrimination, but I see it more as a, (1) generational issue - older patients, (2) old stereotypes, and (3) some ignorance.

    Sure, I can see WHY you would perceive this as discrimination. But the difference here, using the patient who didn't want me in his home, is that he did that out of HATE. These patient's do not hate you. 92 year old Miss Stella was never raised to have a man see her or "handle" her in that way. Are we going to force her to comply over it? No, that would not be prudent.
  5. by   mark_LD_RN
    fab4fan, i think you misunderstood my post, i was refering to nurses i work with not of them as patients. and yes it does and has affected my employment several hospitals would not hire me because of my gender and was told that by the nurse manager who thought males could not work OB. So you see she was trying to force her personal agenda! and trying to impose her views and feelings as those of all women. If i had a female nurse as a patient and she wanted a female nurse to care for her that would not be a problem. I just have a problem with fellow nurses discriminating against others for any reasons. especially when it affects ones lively hood and career opportunities. You would have to experience it to see its full effect. I never have a problem with a patient wanting another nurse instead of me.

    i hope this clarifies what i have been saying.
    Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Aug 8, '02
  6. by   mark_LD_RN
    LasVegas Rn I see it very differently it most definitely is discrimination, being done out of hate is not a prerequisite to be discrimination. look up the definition for your self. But in the instances i am talking about it was definitely done with a hateful attitude. for example this is what a nurse manager told me at one hospital i worked at" I will not allow a damn male to work here not now not ever!" now does that not sound hateful to You?
    if it does not it is still discrimination. I am not talking in refrence to a patients choice ,that is their choice. But just of discrimination in employment by fellow nurses. I agree that some older patients may prefer females as this is the way their generation has been brought up. I have not personally experienced this, i have had many elderly patients and have never had one complain or refuse my care. as a matter of fact have several who told me i am their favorite nurse.

    i hope this helps explain what i am trying to convey.

    being denied employment based on gender is as much discrimination as being denied employment based on race or any other difference.
    Last edit by mark_LD_RN on Aug 8, '02
  7. by   LasVegasRN
    Geez, how'd I miss that? I thought you were talking about patient care all this time.

    I agree 100% - being denied employment based on gender IS discrimination. No question! Incomprehensible that it would come from our peers.
  8. by   LasVegasRN
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    LasVegas Rn I see it very differently it most definitely is discrimination, being done out of hate is not a prerequisite to be discrimination. look up the definition for your self...
    Oh, and since this has been cleared up, I do not feel I need to look up a word that I have lived all of my life.
  9. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    Originally posted by LasVegasRN
    Oh, and since this has been cleared up, I do not feel I need to look up a word that I have lived all of my life.
    Nope Vegas... wouldn't be prudent

    Heather
  10. by   live4today
    Originally posted by LasVegasRN

    Oh, and since this has been cleared up, I do not feel I need to look up a word that I have lived all of my life.
    LVRN.......a very astute finding on your part, I might say! :chuckle

    Oh.....I, too, have LIVED AND LIVED AND LIVED discrimination all my life......but I did NOT know that is what was happening until I started my first job at the age of 17. I grew up in a "plastic bubble"....so to speak....parents didn't teach us kids much...HO-HUM!!!

    MARK.........AND ALL OTHER MALE OB NURSES LISTENING.....I strongly believe that nurses should NOT discriminate against one another, but stick together at all times. IF a woman request not to have a male nurse help her in her laboring and delivering....then so be it....grant her that which she wishes for. If the woman has no complaints....carry on. :kiss
  11. by   mark_LD_RN
    here is the definition according to websters dictionary for those who want to know.

    DISCRIMINATION-to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit <discriminate in favor of your friends> <discriminate against a certain nationality> ,<discriminate against a certain gender or sexual preference>

    just posted it incase anyone wanted to know the definition of it ,not just what may be felt about what it is.
  12. by   Brownms46
    Originally posted by mattsmom81
    This is not stereotypical at all on my part at all...I love my coworkers who happen to be male. And we see eye to eye on this issue.... I'm not a nurse to stress my patient out, or make them uncomfortable with their care just to be PC...nor lecture them ie 'he's a nurse just like me' to get them to comply with our idea of PC. I just don't see this as the nurses' role in this kind of issue...

    ANYTIME a female or male patient requests a same sex nurse, I and my male coworkers do so without a second thought...unless staffing prohibits, and even then we 'switch off' personal care or accomodate best we can for the patient's sake. I don't understand why would we want to do anything else. .JMHO.
    I totally agree mattsmom! If a pt. doesn't want me to care for them...I will be more than glad to accomodate them. I don't care about having a male care for me, but if someone is uncomfortable with it...that is their right! If someone is going to be touching their body...it should be someone their comfortable with...period!


    And just for the sake of explanation...[ sexual preference...does not mean....having a Preference over one sex or another. It means to me at least...discriminating against a person, because of their sexual preference. Such as being gay or straight! This I feel is wrong...but is not saying...that no one has the right to have a preference as to who will touch their bodies! Seems like a no brainer to me! And mattsmom...you're right about the ignore feature...I really love it! :chuckle
    Last edit by Brownms46 on Aug 8, '02
  13. by   Dayray
    Sorry LVRN and cheerful my post wasn't actually directed at you. Both of you have been very supportive and nice.

    I do however stand by my statement that it is discrimination. As I have said in the past I wouldn't force myself on a patient that was uncomfortable because of my race or gender but I still see it as discrimination.

    I too have lived with discrimination on the basis of race. I have to agree with mark when he says it doesn't have to be based on hate. I am actually half white and half Hispanic, its funny but some people think I'm Hispanic and others think I'm white. Because of this I have actually had people from both races tell me raciest things thinking I'm the same race as them.

    Most of the time they don't really hate the other race they just have some stereotypical opinions (not unlike some people do about male nurses). I've heard that Hispanics aren't very smart and that they are lazy, steal, live on welfare, all stick up for each other. I've heard that white people are mean, beat their kids, are selfish, sneaky and don't care about others.

    All those things are silly and could apply to individuals from either race. Heck if they were true I'd be one messed up individual being of both races.

    I had a patient once refuse my care because he thought I would steal from him (I was told this by the nurse who took over for me). He wasn't demented just from an older generation back when discrimination based on race was acceptable. I have also had older Hispanic patients tell me they want me for their nurse because they don't trust white people.

    Discrimination against male nurses isn't so much of an issue with patients but it is with nurses and doctors. The only time I have ever had a patient request a female nurse was when a doctor suggested that she should.

    Last week my supervisors did random surveys with patients on the floor. I got really good scores and they asked my patients how they felt about having a male OB nurse. My supervisor told me they all responded basically the same way, they said "why would that matter?" and didn't really understand why they would even ask the question.

    It doesn't matter to patients but it still seems to matter to many nurses.

    In response to one poster: It doesn't bother me that you prefer a female nurse but it does bother me that you try to justify this as simple preference when it is clearly prejudice. It is not the end of the world to be prejudice. Every one (if they were honest) has some prejudice. It could be as simple as believing people from the other side of town are strange.

    It's normal human behavior to be uncomfortable with the unfamiliar and people who are different from us. Rationalizing these feelings is where the problems start and how hatred starts. We have come along way in this world by becoming more comfortable with each other this is just another bump in the road.

    The world is changing; someday female doctors and male nurses will be free from discrimination based on preconceived ideas about gender roles.

    Until then I would just like for those of you who have these "preferences" to really examine your feeling about the gender of your care provider. What are the feelings based on? Is it something you have seen? Is it based on induction or deduction? Is it something your parents taught you? How would these feelings be different from someone who just felt more comfortable with a non- minority nurse?

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