Why is it okay for Doctors to yell at Nurses? - page 2

I'm currently in Nursing School to get my RN license and I noticed something that is bothering me. Maybe I'm still naive, I just find it baffling to hear how it's almost seen as a given that doctors... Read More

  1. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    0
    In my considerable time as a nurse, a doc yelling at me has been a very rare situation. I have also seen occasions where obnoxious nurses were yelling at other nurses, quite fiercely and loudly, in front of patients and family members. Shoot I have seen wacked out charge nurses do this. As hard to take as any of that is, what you see the most is stuff that is done to another nurse subversively. After all, most people don't want to openly look obnoxious and unprofessional. Their dirty needs are nasty just the same--whether open or by manipulating, bad-mouthing, or by misrepresentation behind the scenes. Ethical managers and nurses catch on; those are not as ethical rationalize the "secret" behaviors and let them slide. When you see this in your place of work, it clearly indicates very poor leadership, and to me, it's a sign to begin to look elsewhere.


    As for physicians, listen, I have worked with many a tired surgeon, and still it happens relatively rarely. Of course there is always the exception to the rule.
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  3. Visit  kim king profile page
    2
    There is a bullying law, where it is illegal to treat people in a bullying fashion.
    In my RN career I only encountered one Doctor who was a bully, yelling, and derogatory to the staff. He even would throw ink pens at the nurses when he was upset. He tried to intimidate me, I responded with, "I truly would like to specifically understand what you would like of me, yet am finding this hard to achieve when yelled at." He smiled and did not yell at me nor throw ink pens at me.
    nwnursing and LexRaven like this.
  4. Visit  KelRN215 profile page
    1
    It's not ok. JCAHO requires that facilities have a Zero Tolerance policy for disruptive behavior:
    JCAHO requires ' Zero Tolerance' for Disruptive Doctors and Administrators | Fox Rothschild LLP

    I am apparently in the minority as I have been yelled at by doctors and have witnessed colleagues being yelled at by doctors. Certain doctors were known repeat offenders. I was yelled at by management way more frequently in my old job than by doctors though. I have not been yelled at since changing jobs 8 months ago though.
    NRSKarenRN likes this.
  5. Visit  T-Bird78 profile page
    1
    One doc I worked for yelled at a nurse, and I'm talking about pointing in her face full-blown screaming, for something she didn't even do. He was frustrated (a surgical pack had been autoclaved with the wrong instruments in it, all nurses at the office sterilized the instruments so it wasn't her that did it and he had no set standard for what he wanted) and he just exploded. He never apologized but he never did it again. She just shrugged it off and the rest of us (we were all standing there telling him she didn't do it) were embarrassed for her, but we paid closer attention to his surgical packs!

    I've heard it said that doctors don't have a God complex, God has a doctor complex. There are some docs that are like that but most will be fine. As others have said, they'll get annoyed or disgruntled because they're human, but most of them know how valuable we are and will treat us the same they'd want to be treated.
    LexRaven likes this.
  6. Visit  DSkelton711 profile page
    1
    I have been treated rather harshly by 1 or 2 docs. Most yelling and carrying on was handed out by patients and/or their families. That's really where most abuse comes from, IMHO.
    anotherone likes this.
  7. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    1
    Quote from samadams8
    In my considerable time as a nurse, a doc yelling at me has been a very rare situation. I have also seen occasions where obnoxious nurses were yelling at other nurses, quite fiercely and loudly, in front of patients and family members. Shoot I have seen wacked out charge nurses do this. As hard to take as any of that is, what you see the most is stuff that is done to another nurse subversively. After all, most people don't want to openly look obnoxious and unprofessional. Their dirty needs are nasty just the same--whether open or by manipulating, bad-mouthing, or by misrepresentation behind the scenes. Ethical managers and nurses catch on; those are not as ethical rationalize the "secret" behaviors and let them slide. When you see this in your place of work, it clearly indicates very poor leadership, and to me, it's a sign to begin to look elsewhere.


    As for physicians, listen, I have worked with many a tired surgeon, and still it happens relatively rarely. Of course there is always the exception to the rule.
    Corrections:
    Should read: dirty deed, not needs.
    Should read: those that are not as ethical. . .
    Esme12 likes this.
  8. Visit  merlee profile page
    2
    Things have changed immensely in recent years. I have been screamed at, and witnessed more than a few bad behaviors over the years. This includes thrown charts, when everything was paper, and thrown phones. One doc actually hung up a wall phone so hard that it came off of the wall. But no longer - these behaviors are no longer tolerated.

    Once I was floated to an area that I was not familiar with, and apparently there were some unwritten but well-known post-op protocols that the permanent staff just 'knew'. But none of them were there that day, and I did not 'know' that the patient was supposed to receive a particular antibiotic as soon as she got to floor post-op. The pt knew she was supposed to get it, but there was no order. I called to the OR, he was too busy on his next case to take the call. Despite repeated messages, it was at least 3 hours before he came to the floor and then screamed - yes, screamed - at me because she had not rec'd her med. He stormed down to the DON to demand that I be fired. Luckily, when she came up to the floor she realized that I really didn't know about his unwritten protocols. When I wrote a letter of complaint about his treatment of me, it ended up in MY personnel file, not his. That was about 30 years ago.

    So glad it is different now.
    RNperdiem and anotherone like this.
  9. Visit  samadams8 profile page
    1
    Quote from KelRN215
    It's not ok. JCAHO requires that facilities have a Zero Tolerance policy for disruptive behavior:
    JCAHO requires ' Zero Tolerance' for Disruptive Doctors and Administrators | Fox Rothschild LLP

    I am apparently in the minority as I have been yelled at by doctors and have witnessed colleagues being yelled at by doctors. Certain doctors were known repeat offenders. I was yelled at by management way more frequently in my old job than by doctors though. I have not been yelled at since changing jobs 8 months ago though.
    I'm sorry you have had to go through that. There's probably a lot of stuff my subconscious mind has chosen to forget. It's been rare, by I have been on the receiving end of some really unprofessional, down right abusive behavior. One woman was a charge nurse in a SICU I was working in. She flipped out big time over the most inane thing, and the surgical fellow thought she was a lune. Amazingly, a number of other nurses blew this charge nurse's behavior off, b/c well, apparently they accepted it as her just being her. That's nonesense. I don't know what flipped inside her brain, but I ended up having to get the supervisor in order to get her to stop acting crazy. I don't even know if she still practices nursing. You have to know how I roll. I try to deal with each person directly, and I am not one to want to get someone in trouble or run "to the principal's office," or use situations in order to move ahead. And I have grown some tough skin. But clearly this poor woman had something else going on, and I was the recipient of her displacement. Thing is, if she had been effectively addressed on it earlier in her tenure there, rather than allowing it to be ignored, it would have been better for everyone. The patients that were out of anesthesia that heard her thought she was a chook. She, however, actually believed it was her right to behavior they way she did--in a leadership position, worse yet.

    I think, however, I would rather be yelled at like that than dead with the underhanded backstabbing stuff. With the subversive stuff, people seem to avoid accountability, at least for a while. They don't tend to get the wrongness of what they are doing until it then turns around and happens to them. If we could only work this mentality out of many nursing areas, what a great thing that would be. I try to set an example. A nurse started to say negative things about someone the other day, and I changed the subject; b/c she has done this before. I was kind; but I gave her a look, and I think it made the point.
    anotherone likes this.
  10. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    0
    I have a question.

    I see a lot of post in many topics on AN about Nurses being mistreated. Is it really so bad that it can't be brushed off (I mean mistreatment by pt's and families btw. I wouldn't put up with a coworker looking down their nose at me either)? When I was a Marine, I took a side job as a bouncer, and I had a temper back then too lol. But I immediately realized that any yelling or threatening towards me was them threatening a "Bouncer," not me personally, you know? Keep in mind I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong, just curious-Is the yelling from Pt's and their families really that bad?
    Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Nov 29, '12
  11. Visit  anotherone profile page
    1
    I haven't heard a doctor yell. Be rude, sarcastic, snippy yes. If a doctor is annoyed and makes a rude comment about something which I was right to page about , for example, I can be just as sarcastic back. I have never seen a doctor yell or thorw charts or anything of that nature. 99% OF the yelling is from patients and their family. and in most cases you better shut your mouth because the customer is always right. If needed you can call security ( which only seems to happen if the pt is not oriented , at least where I work)l. the fully oriented are allowed to yell at staff. lol.
    i think what alot of people term yelling is actually not yelling.
    Anaya_1de likes this.
  12. Visit  NurseDirtyBird profile page
    0
    Can be. There are certain things you know to take with a grain of salt. You don't see people when their life is going absolutely swimmingly, you see them when they're sick and frustrated and tired and angry at the world and/or God. Then again, sometimes they cross the line. All you need is one awful day where nothing is going right and you hear, "You G-D- S-for brains nurse, you'd better get in here and GIVE ME MY ********* PAIN SHOT! IT'S BEEN 3 HOURS, 12 MINUTES AND 37, NO, 38 SECONDS SINCE MY LAST ONE!"
    And then the families...they looked it up on the internet and they're positive it's whooping cough or cholera, or whatever happens to be on the front page of WebMD that day, and what's that pill you're giving her? Is that GENERIC? How dare you give their mother generic medications!
    We could all write pages and pages of stuff that patients and families do that gets under our skin.
  13. Visit  Born_2BRN profile page
    1
    I think I had been yelled at probably several times since I became a nurse. I am still leaning to deal with this issue. I usually apologize but things need to get done and be done whether he or she likes it or not. Most challenging thing for me would be the foreigns doctors who have English accent. I cannot comprehend them on the phone clear so I ask them to repeat what they just told me. They do get annoy by that but what else can you do except making sure you got it down right what were told, right? Anyone agreed?!
    LexRaven likes this.
  14. Visit  anotherone profile page
    1
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    I have a question.

    I see a lot of post in many topics on AN about Nurses being mistreated. Is it really so bad that it can't be brushed off (I mean mistreatment by pt's and fami,lies btw. I wouldn't put up with a coworker looking down their nose at me either)? When I was a Marine, I took a side job as a bouncer, and I had a temper back then too lol. But I immediately realized that any yelling or threatening towards me was them threatening a "Bouncer," not me personally, you know? Keep in mind I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong, just curious-Is the yelling from Pt's and their families really that bad?
    Depends where you work, the customers(patients ) and on your personality. I wouldn't say it is that bad.i kiss up to families and patients big time.. I would say a yelling by a pt or family who is completely oriented happens on average once every few months. Not THAT BAD.

    One of my first threads on here was about a HORRIBLE day I had as a very new nurse. We were short aides and nurses. So I had to do a lot more work. Keep in mind being new, I was slower. One pt had a ton of visitiors in the room and they asked me to get them chairs. Ok. So as I walked down the hall, I HEARD one of my patients making a sound indicating pt needed suctioning. This pt could not communicate much and had a trach. PRIORITY ONE IS SUCTION THE TRACH! so i go in and do that. pt is isolation. and suctioning is supposed to be sterile. these things take time. And I have to assess the patient's respitory status. So this takes time. When I go back out in the hall. the family is ringing again with the OBNOXIOUS mother figure YELLING about the chairs and what is taking so long etc blabh blah blah, they asked me MINUTES AGO. ..... I didn't say anything. I was super annoyed that I was assumed to be a bad /incompetent nurse because I didn't get chairs for visitors fast enough. It really annoyed me, it was the icing on the cake to a bad day. . Then I didn't say a word. Now I might tell the visitors in a sarcastic tone, " Sorry I didn't get your visitors charis fast enough, one of my patients was having trouble breathing." ( or at least I would like to think I would actually say this to a pt or their family but probably never would lol)"
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED likes this.


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