This "us" vs "them" mentality.... - page 14

by DL-SNUP

11,315 Views | 134 Comments

I've been reading through the posts from the last few days, and I'm completely astonished by the "us" vs "them" mentality that is showing up between the nursing students and the staff nurses. Maybe I'm idealistic, but... Read More


  1. 1
    Quote from kids
    That right there is the problem with nursing school "these days".
    Many of us who graduated from degreed programs (not diploma programs) didn't get to graduate unless we demonstrated proficiency in doing the nursing tasks that students get by with knowing how to do "in theory" or on a dummy. Before we graduated we darn well better be able to look at an order, gather the materials, explain it to the patient and perform the task. If we couldn't demonstrate proficiency at sinking a tube, starting an IV, inserting a foley, etc we got remediated until we could do it.

    People taking the NCLEX five, TEN times? Unheard of.

    New grads got maybe 4 weeks of orientation in med-surg, because they already knew how to do nursing tasks and to think like nurses.

    I honestly don't know what nursing schools are teaching these days but it sure looks to me like many of them aren't teaching nursing.
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  2. 1
    Quote from kids
    That right there is the problem with nursing school "these days".
    Many of us who graduated from degreed programs (not diploma programs) didn't get to graduate unless we demonstrated proficiency in doing the nursing tasks that students get by with knowing how to do "in theory" or on a dummy. Before we graduated we darn well better be able to look at an order, gather the materials, explain it to the patient and perform the task. If we couldn't demonstrate proficiency at sinking a tube, starting an IV, inserting a foley, etc we got remediated until we could do it.

    New grads got maybe 4 weeks of orientation in med-surg, because they already knew how to do nursing tasks and to think like nurses, they knew how to spot a patient going down the tubes.

    I honestly don't know what nursing schools are teaching these days but it sure looks to me like many of them aren't teaching nursing.

    And I'm galled by stories of people taking the NCLEX five, TEN times? Unheard of. Fail it twice and you had to return to school. Fail it four times and you were done. To be honest, I don't want some who can't answer 75 questions after 4 tries as my nurse or coworker.
    I used to wonder what happened to nursing? Now it's abundantly clear....
    No Stars In My Eyes likes this.
  3. 0
    Quote from kelll
    OH BOY ! I dont think this is anywhere near solved...but I appreciated hearing all opinions! I can tell you things I have agreed with while reading all these posts.
    Students really are not very helpful and honestly no matter how much I like them which I like them (I do like most of them) they are always one more thing to factor into my day. (if you follow and keep up and just help out as needed thats great we truely do not need another opinion in most cases and will ask you when we do) I do not mean any of this to be rude.
    I honestly have to say that nurses have been students but students are nt nurses and do not understand the issues yet. THIS plays a huge part in the arguement. It is not my job to be nice to you or let you do things, the drama that comes with a scared or opinionated student is just ridiculous to me in the big scheme of things, do not get me wrong I will not knowingly be rude or mean, I do understand that we all start somewhere and that you are human too. I obviously chose to work with people so I do not wish to get away from you, I don't mind teaching anyone along the way....BUT I do not KNOW you or your skill set, I CANNOT concern myself with your individual needs for skills or emotional support when I have a full assignment and am sometimes working short it is in my job description someplace to delegate.
    If you are with me this would be an acceptable situation maybe ideal in my opinion. You are with me for longer than a few hours, you listen to report with me from start to finish, writing things down so you can ask questions when there is time, come to the patients bedside with me I know it is uncomfortable to some extent let me introduce you, or you introduce yourself briefly then step back watch how i work, take mental note of what you like about my approach and what you dont etc *this too is expirience.
    Some of you are with instructors and will pass meds etc with them, please make known what is expected of you from them, I will tell you what I can and cannot do to accomadate you. usually at this time if you have heard of a certain procedure that needs to be performed we will have some small op to discuss if you are able to do it with instructor or if you willasssist me as I have the time to do it. If I have time I can teach you in the steps you would like things done in but I am betting on you having to run room to room with me to keep up and when I am ready to do something you will need to be present or you will miss out...I do not have time to wait for you to read a book or look up each individual med, nor do i have time to explain each one. I dont mind explaining procedures and I believe I can do so in a way that both you and the patient can understand and be comfortable with so please do not pry into why I did something a certain way in front of the patient. Or worse yet try and be a know it all and correct me or the patient at this time, please be curteous.
    This will be repeated over and over all day long its like plan A, plan B, PLan A, maybe plan C nursing is changing every minute prioritizing for the good of all of the patients you take care of for the day. If you are responsible for only two of my patients then you are getting only a little part of the picture. You are not seeing a nurse organize thier day. You are getting a very narrow view.
    Ideally you would be with one nurse even longer than a day. You would be there the whole shift. You would have time to organize your time and talk about EVERYTHING and chart with the nurse and learn many many skills and perform them in the order and frequenct required by your school....but this is the real world, patients are very ill, staffing may be poor, someone may code, someone may die, oh good grief anything can happen and thats what its all about...UNDERSTANDING. You have to roll with the punches, give people the benefit of the doubt, help out as much as you can, take notice of whats going on around you and try and learn something new, maybe even a skill. I would say alot of emphasis is placed on tasks and skills when so much more is gained from knowing how to read people, knowing when to pay attention, and being willing to help. Is it going to do you any good not help out? be a complete pain in the butt and demand things from people who owe you nothing? I am much more willing to ask the same student (even if we have 4 on the floor at once) to help me out again if they had a good attitude even if their skill level left some tobe desired than to try and track down someone with a bad attitude who gets good grades and needs to check this off thier list....again this is a long rant from an expirienced nurse who is hitting on just a small part of a heated issue.

    ABSOLUTELY! BRAVO! YES! MEGA-KUDOS!
  4. 0
    I completely understand the argument that you don't want an un-understanding student. You don't want someone who is making demands of you.
    BUT! That is ABSOLUTELY NOT an excuse to act the way many Nurses do toward students. I've been on both sides of the fence, and I'm here to tell you, you can still be nice. I've had a couple students who were a bit pushy. 3 sentences re: I'm busy, today we probably won't have time for that, I'll do my best, follow my lead. That's it, usually problem solved.
    The LARGE majority of students are not pushy in my experience, they are shy, willing to do whatever (That's the way I was too.) And I still was treated so rudely, that by the time I was done with my student experience, I didn't think I wanted to work in the hospital anymore.
    This is hot button for me. Absolutely NO EXCUSE to treat another human being that way.
  5. 2
    Quote from Spikey9001
    I also think it's completely backwards and asinine to think that an instructor can teach up to 10 students all the ins and outs of skills, patho, and things like that on her own without SOME help from the nurses on the staff.

    To you guys that are opposed to having students and teaching, what do you think should be done? Because apparently there's a lot of "I got mines! Good luck" type attitude and that is counterproductive. I mean if you aren't going to try to revamp the nursing education system and change it, then I suggest you just keep quiet about it or try your best to be a good teacher.

    I mean, I've never seen other disciplines in the healthcare field act like this.

    Med Students: The resident/attending is right there beside them explaining every aspect of the procedure or disease process even if they have to round 40 patients by 10 am.

    PT/OT: The student is right there helping get patients out of bed and documenting with the supervision of a licensed PT/OT.

    Either way, I don't receive the "I'm not welcomed here" vibe from students of other disciplines. But for nursing students, it's like we have to hide in the closets or something or are looked at as vermin. Umm hello...

    When I was in school in 2003, we went to the hospital the night before and got our patient assignments. It was our responsibility to look up the disease (s), the typical pathology, what the common treatments were, and know the medication and the reason the patient was taking it...the next day, we got report, and off we went. It was not the instructors or the nurses responsibility to teach 10 students the "ins and outs" of what I needed to know that day. It was mine. If I had a question, I asked our instructor. Our instructor would spot quiz us on the patient, and if you weren't prepared, you were sent home. Nobody would hand you anything on a plate. Maybe that's why you're getting the vibe? BTW - this was for an LPN program.....

    mc3
    wooh and leslie :-D like this.


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