This "us" vs "them" mentality.... - page 10

by DL-SNUP 11,377 Views | 134 Comments

I've been reading through the posts from the last few days, and I'm completely astonished by the "us" vs "them" mentality that is showing up between the nursing students and the staff nurses. Maybe I'm idealistic, but... Read More


  1. 1
    I'm a student. I'm a relatively new student, so my experiences are limited, but I have no problems with staff nurses in clinical. I do the very best I can to figure things out on my own when I can, and when I can't I try to ask my clinical instructor before troubling a staff nurse with it. When I can't find my CI or if my question is too unit-specific for my CI, I ask a staff nurse. Also, I generally give pt care and helping my nurse as much weight as completing my clinical assignments- aside from wanting to make a good impression on the staff in case I ever end up applying for a job there, I just can't stand to sit around and watch someone else do work that I know how to do and is within my scope as an SN/CNA.
    Maybe its just my clinical location...I could have just gotten really lucky...but the staff nurses are patient with me and seem to really hope for my success and getting the best education I can get...One even took a few minutes aside the other day to break down an ekg and showed me how to find a first degree AV block!
    I agree that there are a lot of students who have IQs of a box of teddybears...and the work ethic of a wet noodle...they make me look bad in clinical, and make all of us look bad to the public. I think they should make nursing school admission standards more stringent. There were 30 alternates for my program when I was admitted who didn't get in because they didn't have points to be competitive with those who did get in...however, enough people had to forfeit their spot in the program for various reasons (financial, scheduling, etc) that every single alternate got into the program. Some alternates had fewer points simply because they had not yet completed all their prereqs, but there were some who had scraped by on their prereqs, gotten mostly Cs in classes like A&P, pathophysiology and the other basics...Please tell me why they are in the same class as me? I am not meaning to sound arrogant at all and I do not think that I am better than the classmates I'm referring to. Either they were smart enough to get the grades but too lazy to try, or they did not have the aptitude to understand basic health concepts...would you want somebody that's too lazy to make an effort in very important career-foundational courses caring for you or a loved one? Or someone who has no aptitude in the basic field cornerstone courses?
    I realize that nurses do not requires as much schooling as doctors, but nurses are on the frontlines of pt care and have the power and opportunites to save just as many lives as doctors if not more. So why should nurses not have equally high expectations for schooling??
    okay getting off soap box now. I think we as nurses (and NS) determine to a great degree how the general public views our profession- so it's time to get more selective about who gets to determine how our profession is viewed!
    xtxrn likes this.
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    Quote from linearthinker
    I think nursing needs to do a better job of weeding people out. Let's start with requiring some SAT scores comparable to the other professional schools, which means no more of this community college for RNs stuff. It's nonsense. Professionals have college degrees (don't bother with the "I know a BSN who is a terrible nurse" crap- you will not convince me). The NCLEX needs to be much harder, and much more expensive. CEU requirements need to be more stringent, as in more rigorous, and more of them. In addition, RNs should have to reboard every 5 years, just like physicians.

    I honestly think if you weed out the lowest common denominator you will attract a higher caliber of professional, and then the money and respect will follow. I have said it before, and it isn't popular. The reason nursing isn't respected is because it is populated by people who simply aren't going to gain respect from other professionals. We need to get rid of them. Raise the bar, weed them out. I don't want girls who look and act like they belong on the pole representing nursing. I don't want Gomer Pyle representing nursing. I don't want idiots representing nursing. I don't want Jerry Springer guest material representing nursing. Raise the bar. Let's get rid of them.

    You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.

    Argue too strenuously with this, and I'm going to assume you fall into one of the Gomer Pyle or Springer categories.
    And all this, because our society tells us "we can be whatever we want to be". The generation that was treated with kid-gloves is growing up in a time of recession and massive unemployment. A time where you can't be whatever you want to be.
    kids, hiddencatRN, CCL RN, and 3 others like this.
  3. 12
    Quote from linearthinker
    Raise the bar. Let's get rid of them.

    You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.
    But what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????
    kids, elkpark, Altra, and 9 others like this.
  4. 4
    Quote from wooh
    But what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????

    BAAAAhahahaha. hit the nail on the head. "omg, i just want to help people, ya'll!" if it were handwriting it'd be big and bubbly with hearts over the "i"s. hahaha! with a picture of said student making out with her boyfriend with a huge mixed drink in her hand at spring break last year.
    kids, Altra, CCL RN, and 1 other like this.
  5. 2
    Quote from linearthinker
    You want nursing to be elite, start only accepting elite into the ranks.
    I see your point, but the "elite" need to be trained while in nursing school and far beyond nursing school. The nursing profession will still encounter the need to train, regardless of how elite a student is/was. That's the point of this thread.

    No matter how smart a student or new grad is, OJT is key. Of course, you have the experienced nurses with 100 years of floor work who claim that they were on their own by hour 1. Ok, I get that--I may not completely believe it, but I get it. In today's environment, it just doesn't happen. That's the environment we have to work with....or change.

    On all measures that determine who is elite prior to being accepted into nursing school and while in nursing school, I was definitely one of them. However, that doesn't change the fact that when I walked onto a floor as a student and now as a working nurse, I'm still a newbie that needs training. With that evidence, should we change the educational model for nurses once again? I say...definitely maybe.

    My school was short on skills, but big on critical thinking, patho, and pharm. While I wish that I knew the hands-on skills to make everyone's job easier, give me a couple tries, and I got it. The skills aren't rocket science. The thinking is. Regardless, I still need help with that thinking. Even if my floated ideas are, 9 times out of 10, confirmed by my preceptor as correct, I still need help even if I was/am "elite."
    Esme12 and VICEDRN like this.
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    I really do think a really good place to start would be to start requiring nurses to reboard every 5 years. We could lose a lot of ballast that way immediately. Let's face, a great many people who presently hold RN licenses should not. We should purge the ranks.

    Basic literacy would also be good criteria.
    kids, OCNRN63, VICEDRN, and 2 others like this.
  7. 7
    Quote from wooh
    But what if it's their dReAm to tAkE cArE oF pEoPlE????
    They can work in customer service at Piggly Wiggly. Those customers need "taking care of" and these days it is not much different, lol. If it is really health care they want, they can do customer service at CVS or Walgreens. He//, they will have the last laugh, b/c there is little poop (I won't say no poop, b/c you never know) involved.

    In all seriousness, Nursing has got to stop accepting the lowest common denominator into our ranks. It is embarrassing.
    ChristineN, kids, cherrybreeze, and 4 others like this.
  8. 4
    Quote from nurse educate
    And all this, because our society tells us "we can be whatever we want to be". The generation that was treated with kid-gloves is growing up in a time of recession and massive unemployment. A time where you can't be whatever you want to be.
    bubblymom373, kids, CCL RN, and 1 other like this.
  9. 5
    Quote from All4Seasons
    Linear Thinker says," the reason nursing isn't respected is" ; my question for him/ her is, isn't respected by whom? That is a massive generalization.
    By people whom don't respect nurses.
    kids, cherrybreeze, OCNRN63, and 2 others like this.
  10. 3
    Dudette, I skipped pages 2-8, but I didn't see anyone saying they knew it all on day 1. If anyone said that, I think they are misremembering the facts. In any event, you are I are not talking about the same thing at all. I am venting about the apparently incredibly low standards for being accepted to and graduating from a nursing program and passing NCLEX these days.

    I would agree that comprehensive orientation and support are critical to the success of the new graduate nurse, but that nurse has to have the sense that god gave a goat in the first place or all the hugs, rainbows and warm fuzzies in the world are not going to help.
    nursel56, hiddencatRN, and CCL RN like this.


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