The value of experience in nursing - page 2
I am writing this post because I am concerned by the number of new nurses/students who appear to feel threatened/offended by some of the points of view more experienced nurses hold in regard to... Read More
Jul 31, '12 by Stephalump, RNQuote from fakebeeFeel free to make use of the list aboveOuch, that hurts.
Jul 31, '12 by kcmylornsusie2310- well said. I couldn't agree more.
I think you nailed it, the intolerable "attitudes" of self promotion with little to no experience under their belts and the blatant disrespect they display to their older more experienced Nursing co-workers. I am not saying all but I have been reading the threads on AN and I have witnessed first hand- it is a good majority. The tone is narcissistic, self absorbed and full of themselves. Any opinnion that is posted that is not gussingly praising, wonderfully complementary and filled with the compliments of the ages like we have all had a paultry measerly retched existance until they came along and delivered us from evil, is met barbs of sarcasm, fascious remarks, total put downs and blatant disrespect: a total abandonment of the body of knowledge they self proclaim to be "expert" and great at( hense a menopause comment on another thread and a spewing of vitroil that thereafter sparked) that if the same tone was shown to their own parents, who insidently are our age, they would lash out and punch in the nose, then toddle their cocky attitude selves off in a huff to report it to the nearest authority figure or open their nasty acid mouth and inialliate the perpetrator who then, in reality, become the victim.
There is very little self reflection -a phrase and activity I am sure they have heard and were expected to do in their nursing programs in their Senior year capstone course or their portfolio course. There is very little self examination, very little self critiquing. it is only by self examination that one proceeds to growth in the direction of that expertise-, something they so desperately want which they will never attain because the attitude get in the way.
There seems to be no humility but a constant striving for group affirmation, the perpetual patting on the back- like as I posted: the clapping given to a 3 yr old for hitting the potty and not messing their pants followed by a group serenade of the Sesame Street song "I Am Proud of You"
I think it can be summed up in a few words- lack of maturity, which I blame on their parents for not correcting them when they did wrong for fear of "hurting their little self esteem" Thank you Dr Spock. Part of the blame lies with the technology available through out the "wonder years"- that instant gratification and inability to wait something out. The media's perpetuating this pressure to be No 1 at all costs, Their educational system that didn't teach them how to deal with a failing grade or mistake up on raising their hand with the wrong answer or a beginner level of anything-I supposed they popped out of the womb with the wisdom of the ages propably due to the educators own intimidation for fear of a even nastyier parent and a threat of a lawsuit. NB: Spoiling a child is not only giving a kid all the worldly possessions their little hearts desire. Spoiling a child is lack of discipline, lack of correcting the disrespect and a poor upbringing- That is a little pearl was taught to my nursing class by our Pediatrics instructor. The blame is furthered by the Nusing programs telling them how older nurses know nothing and these soon to be graduates are going on to deliver the profession from the incompetent, inept stupid old as dirt senile experienced nurses.
Maybe the answer is to segregate with an imaginary no speak zone/ line- the newer nurses on one side and the older experience nurses on the other.
All I ask of the newer nurses is this - take what ever your few short years of experience- be it 18 month, 2 years 1 year 1 month then look at that older experienced nurse with the 20,25, 30 or even 40 years of experience and honestly compare the 2 levels of experience, then seriously ask yourself; Does my short time in this profession give me the same amount of knowledge as that more experienced nurse? Then remember there is ALWAYS going to be some one with more experience than you, some one smarter than you, someone better looking, some one slimmer- it's called LIFE, Reality and maturity.
As far as the boasting of being the greatest thing that happened to nursing- the sign of maturity would be- do we really sound that bad?Would you want to be around someone who is always blowing their own horn? or would you have a chronic state of nausea also?
Jul 31, '12 by HeartsOpenWideI have been a nurse for three years now and I STILL value the guidance of a more senior nurse. I am OB certified, but I will still go to my senior nurses (as in experience, not "old") when I get a funny EFM strip I am stuck on; I greatly value their experience. New grads should value it even more; they think they might know a lot because they got good grades; or passed the NCLEX with only 75 questions, but for the first year, 99% of them don't know Jack!
Jul 31, '12 by Susie2310Quote from esc_newnurseYou have every right to be upset with generalizations. I think most people, if they are sensible, will use the qualifiers "some" and "sometimes."I think the OP wrote a great post.
I am a new graduate. I agree there are many other student and new graduates who think very highly of themselves, and this is not only annoying but also disconcerting. I really have no problem with the experienced nurses on this forum saying that they have a problem with these specific new graduates attitudes. I only have a problem with the generalization that ALL new grads think this, or act this way.
I am going to be starting my first job as a nurse in a few weeks and I am scared that I will be judged merely because I am a new grad, and others have put a sour taste in the mouths of the experienced nurses.
Please don't let the few ruin it for the rest of us!
Jul 31, '12 by Always_LearningWelp, I wrote a very thoughtful response on a similar thread that is now MIA, so I guess I won't chime in this time. :spin:
Jul 31, '12 by kcmylornHearts Wide Open and esc_newnurse- Thank you for being the kind of "person" you seem to be in your posting above. With your open mind and heart, the learning will take place and I have no doubt you will both be "Excellent" nurses because you have allowed yourself to be open to that learning and what ever experience can teach you. JMHO: For what ever it's worth.
Aug 1, '12 by GenYgrrrreatnurseWhat is your opinion of nurses with 3, 5, 10 years of experience who are promoted to charge, NM, or DON? Or nurses in their 20's that pursue advanced degrees which outrank you and surpass you in education and clinical experience (i.e. a rural 25 year med/surg nurse vs. a 3 year trauma icu flight nurse?) What is the definitive factor when evaluating a nurse? Is it age and length of experience or patient outcomes, track record of safety, and proven leadership ability?
For example, there are two teachers in the same school; one has been teaching for 30 plus years yet his students consistently fail to rise to standard in math, science, and reading. They complain he is difficult to understand, lacks passion, and is moody. The second teacher has been teaching for three years yet she inspires her students, finds proactive ways to help them succeed, and is positive and supportive. Which teacher deserves a promotion? Which teacher knows (or understands) more?
I think we would all be better off if we refrained from comparing one to another. But if you really want to play that game we can. And I can betcha this narcissistic, entitled young thing will beat you every time. Young nurses need to learn to be confident leaders and not to feel they are at the mercy of overbearing, bitter people. That is no way to live.
Aug 1, '12 by GenYgrrrreatnurseAnd I just want to add that I am so grateful to all you experienced nurses that treat us newbies with respect and care. The way you treat us reflects how you treat your patients. And God knows that building trust and mutual respect results in lower stress levels and better outcomes every time. But now I am starting to sound kind of self righteous so I had better go back to lurking. I guess we're all people. We all deserve respect. I don't care much for heirarchies where one person poops on another.Last edit by GenYgrrrreatnurse on Aug 1, '12
Aug 1, '12 by modgoth1, BSNAs a new nurse, I guess I don't know jack. Compared to experienced nurses, that statement is true. I look forward to gaining the experience that will allow me to one day know jack. During the days, weeks, months, and years that I will spend learning jack, I will respect and appreciate the wisdom of more experienced nurses. I only ask that they don't try to eat me in the process, as I may bite back.
Aug 1, '12 by Anna Flaxis, ASNI guess what rubs me the wrong way about this entire topic is the assumption that an inexperienced nurse with a lot of self confidence does not value the experience of a seasoned nurse. These two things are not inextricably bound. It is a false dichotomy. I think one can be new, inexperienced, and self confident AND have a high regard for the experience of nurses who have been doing this for a long time.
I think most of us would agree that a nurse who is overconfident and doesn't know what they don't know is a dangerous nurse. I've seen this in both new and experienced nurses. I think most of us would also agree that a nurse who lacks the confidence to make a decision can also be a dangerous nurse. Again, I've seen both new and experienced nurses who fit this description.
This is why we are taught collaboration; to talk things out with other nurses, some with more experience, some with fresh perspectives, to come to a better understanding of the situation before us.
I have learned so much from more experienced nurses than I, and I have taught more experienced nurses a thing or two as well, through the process of collaboration.
So what if some bright eyed bushy tailed enthusiastic new nurse wants to think they are "good", "great", or "excellent"? They will make mistakes, and they will be humbled, and hopefully, they will use their mistakes as opportunities to learn and grow and become better.
There are so many opportunities in nursing to get emotionally beat up and feel like the worst nurse that ever walked the planet, and they might as well just fire you on the spot, and who in the world decided to give you a nursing license anyway?
Why make a point of adding another stone to this psychic weight we all carry by picking at what adjectives other nurses use to describe themselves? Of what good to the whole of Nursing is this?
Aug 1, '12 by NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN ModeratorAdmin Team notice:
Thread moved to our Nurse Colleague forum due to topic. After Admin review, we are closing due to unintendied divisive nature.
Newbies, moderately experienced or 20+ year veterans, each nurses actions need to be viewed individually. We desire not to engage in what some perceive as lateral violence. That is why previous thread on the same topic was closed and moved offsite.
I am thankful that my excitement for nursing and gung-ho attitude exhibited in '73 as Nurses Aide and later as new grad LPN in 77 was appreciated and channelled appropriately into beconing charge nurse and involvement in workplace committees instead of being dampened. This passion has now sustained me for almost 40 years in healthcare. May today's grads passion, grow into clinical excellence and sustain them throughout their careers.Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Aug 2, '12