The "bully" nurse - Page 4

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  1. Oct 5, '05 by
    Hi Nancy K,
    Thanks for your comments and encouragement!
    Bill H (rhinojogger)
  2. Oct 5, '05 by
    Quote from Daytonite
    ...A CNA or a unit secretary can be a bully just as well as an RN. You are correct that bullys can ignore you, ask endless intimidating questions and complain about your performance, but these are only outward manifestations of the true heart of this beast who really has an ulterior motive of seeing herself or himself as being better than everybody else. Bullys are inherently mean, negative people who want to have power over everyone else and will not stop at using these kinds of nasty little behaviors to accomplish this. Bullys can be found in all walks of life, not just nursing.
    Daytonite,

    I want to thank you for being so clear on this.

    Something else I have discovered about bullies, (as a former bully target for eyars) is that they are drawn to smudge people that are kind, respectable, compassionate, genuine and sincere.

    I suspect that genuinely good people trigger the bullies insecurities.

    Gennaver
    p.s. have learned myself that a bully, is a bully regardless of their underlying issues, (however sad those issues may be) and no amount of understanding or rationalizing or talking or engaging with them will do anything more than 'feed' their attention seeking behavior
  3. Oct 5, '05 by
    Quote from MikeyBSN
    Hi, I was wondering if people could help me with a project that I was working on for one of my classes. We have heard nurses complaining about being "bullied" but I'm not sure what that means to different nurses. So, in your oppion, what makes a "bully nurse?"
    You know Mikey, I could never understand this bullying thing. :stone Since it is considered violence in the workplace now a days, a lot of it has stopped at my facility. I haven't seen any bullying for quite a long time. All the nurses and CNA's who were the bullies have either retired or found other places of employment. Like I said I could never understand the bullying thing and especially to new staff members. I always felt bad for the newbies because I knew the bullies would eventually get them. I always tried to take them aside and give them a pep talk, but they always broke down and said, "I don't think I can take much more of this." We need to welcome them with open arms and treat them with respect and kindness in order for them to remain for a long time. It is possible.
  4. Oct 5, '05 by
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    www.bullyonline.org

    lots of good info regarding all kinds of bullying, from the workplace, to the schools, to home.
    Hello SmilingBluEyes,

    This site helped me a lot in my last 'bully situation'. Now that I have stepped back from the situation and matured a few more years I am very firm in my desire to just not 'feed' the bullies.



    They are not harmless-not at all.

    In their desire to inflate their own egos or needs they will step over others without conscience. Matter of fact, I think there is a book titled, "Without Consicence" but I do not know who it is by.

    Whenever I think of a bully I now think that I would not want them to have the authority to make another person feel bad, for thier own pleasure. I would not want to 'tolerate' bullying because wrong is wrong and someone is going to get hurt, (emotional/verbal abuse is hurtful).

    I also know that they only have the power that we 'give' them.

    I do not want to 'give' a bully any power either. However, I am very certain that they will always keep checking for it.

    Bullies and Narcissists, (same thing?) are very unpleasant to have to work with.

    Gennaver
    Last edit by Gennaver on Oct 5, '05
  5. Oct 5, '05 by
    One of the ways to deal with bullies is to find a "Clinical Colleague" - usually someone within your own field of practice but outside your workplace - with whom you can speak freely.

    Bullies like to nitpick claiming it is "the best for the patient" e.g. - "All ICU patients must have 2nd hourly eye care" and then they jump on anyone giving eye care even 15 minutes late.

    Remember it is about setting up impossible standards, micromanaging and actively looking for faults.

    But just as importantly DO NOT FALL INTO THE VICTIM ROLE

    Once bullied you can end up being the target of serial bullying because you have never learnt how to deal with it or, because you are not made that way, find it difficult to deal with.

    A lot of people (me included) have difficulty with confrontation and cannot or will not tell a bully to go @#$# themselves - a response that SHOULD be given at the earliest possible time. Why? Because MOST bullies when confronted back off. I find it difficult to take someone aside and say "Listen I am not your chew toy - if you want to keep treating me like one I will start documenting everything coming out of your mouth."

    It is far, far more difficult though, when there is cohort bullying or mobbing - then your only hope is to get out.
    noyesno likes this.
  6. Oct 5, '05 by
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    www.bullyonline.org

    lots of good info regarding all kinds of bullying, from the workplace, to the schools, to home.
    http://www.breakingranks.net/

    Hey SmilingBluEyes,

    You always provide us with such great resources!

    I wondered if you had ever been exposed to the theory of "rankism"? It is an aspect of bullying and I think it is very closely associated to a lot of the problems we see in nursing. Whether it be the difference of "ranks" in degrees/levels of education/training (LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, PhD, special this or that) or years in experience.

    Check out the site when you get a chance and let me know what you think
  7. Oct 6, '05 by
    Quote from rhinojogger
    . . .a good nurse does not necessarily make a good manager and I think this is where frustration and bullying and intimidation come in. Just as new nurses need precepting and mentoring, new nurse managers should also be given guidance, preceptoring, and mentoring to become good managers. They just don't become one overnight. Another thing...it seems that nurses have long wanted to be treated more professionaly than they have been. If we are always cat fighting, ********, whining, and moaning, eating our young, and generally acting like children, and other professionals see this behavior, then how can we ever expect to be treated and recognized as professionals?
    Very good points! I don't want to start the ADN/BSN controversy, but I have to say that in my BSN program we got way more communication, psychology and leadership study and training than I ever had in my ADN program. And, if I'm not mistaken the MSN get tons more of it. This is, I think, part of the case for going on to getting a BSN. Just a consideration for some of you considering it. Supervision and management is a skill that can be taught, not necessarily something you have a knack for. Nursing schools just can't provide clinical experience with these skills and it is left to each individual to seek out experiences and master the various techniques. There are a great many people who think that once formal classes are ended they are done with school (and learning) and just want to get on with the earning money part. That's sad! I do believe that many of these bad supervisors and preceptors come under that category.

    Please don't let the two bad experiences you've had put you off to nursing. I am a big believer that everything happens for a reason. Perhaps, in your case, it is to make you sensitive to bullying behaviors and to motivate you to make some kind of changes, in your own way. The military trains it's leaders, so you have somewhat of an advantage when it comes to becoming a supervisor and leader yourself. Try again. Sometimes the third time is the charm. Try a larger hospital if you were in a smallar one, or even a teaching hospital with resident doctors (now there's a experience in itself). As you become skilled at nursing procedures and time management, things do get so much better. I had to quit two nursing jobs as a new graduate because of being lied to (by the DON) and bullying by LPNs at a LTC of all things! before I finally found a job that was comfortable. After 30 years of experience I can tell you that I sure know how to handle both those situations now. It really helps to start on a hospital unit that is not as fast paced as the ICUs, ERs or stepdown units. Your education is never a waste. Please don't let a handful of bullies kill your hopes of being a nurse. There is a place for you out there and when you becomed seasoned then you need to step forward and take positions where you can put a stop to the kind of behavior you experienced.

    I was also thinking about intern and resident doctors. For many, many years they were bullied by the physicians who were supposed to be teaching them in their clinical rotations. New graduate doctors (interns and residents) are in much the same situation as new graduate nurses. They come out of school having a lot of knowledge, but no practical experience. The purpose of their internships and residencies is to get that clinical experience. In the recent years, some of the ones who were victims of the bullying, intimidation, and abuse led movements to curtail some of this. You see how some states have restricted the total number of clinical hours residents can work. I've also been seeing more clinical supervisors of the residents who were actually nice! I suspect that bullying also goes on in other highly educated technical professions as well. It's because it's a powerful psychological game that's going on. As people start to see these psychological games for what they are then action can be taken, but you can't do that from the sidelines. You've got to be in the trenches.
  8. Oct 6, '05 by
    Quote from Daytonite
    Very good points! I...

    There is a place for you out there and when you becomed seasoned then you need to step forward and take positions where you can put a stop to the kind of behavior you experienced.

    .....

    It's because it's a powerful psychological game that's going on. As people start to see these psychological games for what they are then action can be taken, but you can't do that from the sidelines. You've got to be in the trenches.
    Hello,

    More good information about stepping forward once you have grown through a 'bullying' experience.

    The saying about absolute power, corrupting absolutely might fit here too.

    I am trying to find a righteous middle between preventing/stopping or allowing/tolerating bullying and while respecting the 'bullyer's' human/sensative side. No doubt the bullies are compensating for their own lonely and low self-esteem and I want to prevent bullying but do not want to devestate someone's sense of self either. That is tricky though. I guess that being firm is the only way to go about it, not insulting, no misunderstanding, just direct in refusal to be a doormat or whipping toy.

    Gennaver
  9. Oct 6, '05 by
    Quote from Daytonite
    I have to disagree with the first part of this post. First of all I am an older nurse (30 years) and have many friends who are also older nurses by definition of experience. I don't test and question new grads that I've been precepting. I try to take them in hand and guide them, impart to them some of the wisdom I've learned in the past 30 years to help make their way a little easier. The poster is right about bullies being intimidating. However, they come in all shapes, sizes, genders, ages and years of (in)experience. I speak from the experience of having been a supervisor and nurse manager who saw this kind of behavior and also experienced it over the years. A CNA or a unit secretary can be a bully just as well as an RN. You are correct that bullys can ignore you, ask endless intimidating questions and complain about your performance, but these are only outward manifestations of the true heart of this beast who really has an ulterior motive of seeing herself or himself as being better than everybody else. Bullys are inherently mean, negative people who want to have power over everyone else and will not stop at using these kinds of nasty little behaviors to accomplish this. Bullys can be found in all walks of life, not just nursing.
    I agree. My mother in law is one. :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle
  10. Oct 6, '05 by
    [QUOTE=Daytonite]Very good points! I don't want to start the ADN/BSN controversy, but I have to say that in my BSN program we got way more communication, psychology and leadership study and training than I ever had in my ADN program. And, if I'm not mistaken the MSN get tons more of it.

    Thanks Daytonite for your comments and encouragement. I thought I would take a little time off from the bullies and work on my BSN. I agree with you that we can never have enough education. I have about a year to go on that. Then I may jump back in and go again. Either that or try to get a little higher up the food chain by getting my PA or NP.