patient privacy - page 2

during my career i always did whatever i could to protect the patients modesty regardless of gender or age. i was recently a surgical patient at a VA hospital and had what i feel was a disrespectful... Read More

  1. Visit  Sacred eagle profile page
    0
    Quote from NoviceRN10
    I don't think it's a big deal. The surgery you had was one that I was able to observe during nursing school and I remember the pt being draped during the procedure. He wasn't exposed or hanging out all over the place. I don't think you have the say of who is or isn't observing or in the OR during a surgery.
    The patient does have a say regarding observers anywhere in the OR and anywhereelse in the hospital. An OR transcript of whose presence is done at the beginning or endof each surgery case. That information is made available to the patient if requested.
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  3. Visit  *4!#6 profile page
    0
    I would be ENRAGED if I was you. That was a told violation of your rights. Even when I had my tonsils out, they had me fill out forms asking if I could be observed, filmed, or specimens from my body could be used for research. If I was you, I would file a complaint. Sorry if this seems a bit overboard, but my cut reaction is to be mad for your sake.
  4. Visit  GrnTea profile page
    1
    you know, whenever this sort of thing has come up, i do my best to make a teaching occasion out of it. if that's not possible, i think to myself, "well, plenty of people have seen this body, a few more won't make a damn bit of difference." then i smile to myself about some of those past occasions, and wait for the sodium pentothal to kick in.

    i hear you about asking permission, and i would do that for a patient. but i am not such a special snowflake that i really need to worry about what professionals are thinking about my corpus. they've all seen something like it before and will see a lot more of it before they retire, so what the heck. chill out.
    SNB1014 likes this.
  5. Visit  Cul2 profile page
    1
    "but i am not such a special snowflake that i really need to worry about what professionals are thinking about my corpus."

    i don't disagree with that point of view, but it is a point of view. as i see it, it's not about what the professionals are thinking or how they feel. it's about what the patient is thinking and how he/she feels.
    that's the crux of the issue. frankly, i assume that most professionals are so used to their work that they take it in stride. this is both good and bad. good if they don't ever forget how the patient may be feeling. bad if they become habituated or numb or routinized to such an extent that they just go through the motions without thinking. but the point isn't how the caregiver feels. it's how the patients feel. most patients don't have this done to them every day. indeed, many patients have never had this done to them before. this is were the abyss exists sometimes between the patient and the caregiver point of view.
    StayingFit likes this.
  6. Visit  Rose_Queen profile page
    1
    This is why you need to read everything very carefully before you sign it. Pretty much every consent for surgery I have seen includes a paragraph about photos for educational purposes and allowing observers, also for educational purposes. Quite honestly, if you don't take the time to read something as important as the consent for someone to cut into your body, then you've given that consent by signing that paper you didn't read. Let's be real, nursing isn't just about the patients, it's also about educating those who will one day take our places.
    nohika likes this.
  7. Visit  Sacred eagle profile page
    1
    Quote from poetnyouknowit
    This is why you need to read everything very carefully before you sign it. Pretty much every consent for surgery I have seen includes a paragraph about photos for educational purposes and allowing observers, also for educational purposes. Quite honestly, if you don't take the time to read something as important as the consent for someone to cut into your body, then you've given that consent by signing that paper you didn't read. Let's be real, nursing isn't just about the patients, it's also about educating those who will one day take our places.
    Truthfully, most nurses don' t even know that exists on the consent. You are in a hurry to getthe patient to sign it. And if the patient did sign that portion of the consent would you look for it and/or follow through. How about treating everyone like you want tobe treated.
    StayingFit likes this.
  8. Visit  Rose_Queen profile page
    1
    Quote from Sacred eagle
    Truthfully, most nurses don' t even know that exists on the consent. You are in a hurry to getthe patient to sign it. And if the patient did sign that portion of the consent would you look for it and/or follow through. How about treating everyone like you want tobe treated.
    Where I work, it is the physician's responsibility to obtain consent. My signature only says that I witnessed the patient sign that paper. It all boils down to personal responsibility. The consent is a legal document. It should be read in its entirety before being signed.

    That being said, if I have a student with me, I take them out to preop with me and introduced them to the patient. No one has ever had an issue with it that I've met. I've had one patient who did what responsible patients do and read the consent. He then crossed out the entire paragraph about photos and initialed next to it. No big deal, we followed his request and we didn't take photos (not that we would have anyway for the surgery he was having).

    Patients need to be active participants in their own care. That includes reading all required paperwork/consents/whatever as well as following recommendations that are accepted standards of care, such as coughing and deep breathing and getting out of bed to a chair soon after surgery.
    Anna Flaxis likes this.
  9. Visit  KaroSnowQueen profile page
    1
    Me? I don't care if students observe. I figure if they want to see a round little woman get whatever done, more power to them. However, I remember clearly my mother being horrified that "gobs" of people were brought into the room to observe her give birth to my little sister in 1966. (Oops, told my age, now I guess I am a Crusty Old Bat as well.) She carried on about it for literally years. So some people are not pleased with observers, and everyone should be given the chance to approve or disapprove of who sees them during a procedure.
    StayingFit likes this.
  10. Visit  medresearch2011 profile page
    1
    A patient has an absolute right to refuse any and all observers, trainees, residents, intern or students of ANY kind to be involved in any facet of his/her care..surgery,exams or anything else...blanket "consent" forms signed before a procedure or surgery or inpatient amission mean nothing if the patient say: "no students (includes all residents, interns, med students, srna etc)... I'm a "bad" patient; I get really selfish when I'm sick or having surgery..I do not want observers/students involved..and I work in a university medical center teaching mostly med or health science students. I get my care at the university med center because it's high quality (and because it's free for me and for my family). Upon admission/outpatient surgery, I always cross out the part of the consent allowing ANY observers/students to participate. It's my right. During my recent endo procedure, a srna tried to start my IV with her crna "supervisor" instructing and I objected asking her to review my consent. A melee insued with the endo doctor going ballistic on the anesthesia nurses; the endo doctor was apologetc that my consent had been violated and the crna and the srna were given a written counseling; which I thought was harsh but necessary. I had no confidence in this "team" that was about to perform my colonoscopy and my endo doctor was livid....she called in an anesthesiologist to do my case, but I didn't trust them at that point. Nobody would. I had the colonoscopy done 1 hour later at another hospital, with an anesthesiologist, no students or crna involvement and the university med center paid for the entire thing. Patients have the absolute right to refuse student involvement in their care; my endo doc said that she would not want a crna much less a srna involved in performing her own colonoscopy.
    ImAnORnurse likes this.
  11. Visit  SaoirseRN profile page
    0
    At our hospital, the consent form for all procedures includes something along the lines of "agree to the presence of nursing students" and something else about observers. Patients are able to cross out and initial this if they wish to refuse this or any part of the consent. I am not saying this was the case with you, but before signing anything people really must read the paperwork thoroughly.
  12. Visit  Andy Droid profile page
    0
    Does everyone who's going in to observe read the PTs consent form to see if they've crossed out that part?


    edit:
    Quote from medresearch2011
    During my recent endo procedure, a srna tried to start my IV with her crna "supervisor" instructing and I objected asking her to review my consent. A melee insued with the endo doctor going ballistic on the anesthesia nurses; the endo doctor was apologetc that my consent had been violated and the crna and the srna were given a written counseling; which I thought was harsh but necessary. I had no confidence in this "team" that was about to perform my colonoscopy and my endo doctor was livid....she called in an anesthesiologist to do my case, but I didn't trust them at that point. Nobody would.
    Pretty much figured consent forms were frequently ignored... you just happened to catch yourself being violated.
    Who's to say what happens when a PT is out.

    if I ever need surgery, I'm going to insist on a trusted loved one be at my side the entire time with a cam corder.
  13. Visit  Rose_Queen profile page
    0
    Quote from Andy Droid
    Pretty much figured consent forms were frequently ignored... you just happened to catch yourself being violated.
    Who's to say what happens when a PT is out.

    if I ever need surgery, I'm going to insist on a trusted loved one be at my side the entire time with a cam corder.
    Good luck finding (1) a hospital willing to allow non-hospital personnel in the OR- even reps not employed by the hospital are required to do all inservices/computer learning modules that staff must do in order to be granted access; and (2) a surgeon willing to agree to those terms. Visitors to the OR who know nothing about the OR are more of a hassle than a benefit both to the patient and the staff- worries about them passing out, contaminating the sterile field, interfering with care, the list goes on.
  14. Visit  PalmHarborMom profile page
    2
    When having my son, I was asked if medical students could observe and participate in the birth. I told the Dr, "You can have 1 student observe, the same student this is not a parade. He/she is also only allowed to observe. When it comes time for any stitches or checking the cervix, only you can do that." The doctor was OK with that. The next day, the medical student came in to ask questions and that is when I found out that he was an idiot. He asked questions like, "Do you have any vaginal bleeding?" and was very concerned when I said yes... well duh, I just passed a 9lb baby out of it. Then a series of other questions that were ridiculous. He also stood on the other side of the birthing suite like I had the cooties. This was my second child and knew that most of the questions he was asking were not needed. Being extremely tired, I kicked him out of the room. The nurses came running in my room laughing after about 10 minutes, this med student evidently had been irritating patients all morning and thought that I wasn't allowed to kick him out of the room. He wanted the nurses to call my doctor. They made him do it and my doc was equally irritated with him. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall to hear what the doc said to him.
    monkeybug and poppycat like this.


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