Nurses eat their young - now I understand why.

[RN_Marie]

I started working for a sub-acute LTC as the DSD last week. The DON and I hit it off because we have the same vision on what we need to do in order to solve the problems we current have.

Early this week, we posted an ad for RN charge nurse with no experience required. We feel it's best to have trainable nurses even though they lack experience. I was tasked to interview for the position as I will be the one training them for the first 36-hours.

Needless to say, I was flabbergasted with the array of applicants we had and now know why the some nurses eat their young.

- New

RN

grad said she's been working as a CNA and knows she can do the job because there's not much difference between being a charge nurse and CNA

- New

RN

grad said that she'll consider our offer, so I asked if she is being offered another position (as we need someone full time). She said she's expecting an offer any day now since she finished the online application earlier this week (and she was not kidding).

- Someone coming into the interview with a wrinkled nose and irked expression and said that she can smell the BM from the floor

- Someone who wrote "expert in IV medication preparation"; when asked what's their experience on it, she stated she's been a vet nurse and she's been doing those a lot.

- Someone who said they are not available for the first two weeks of April as they are going on a cruise

- Someone asking for the pay, end up telling me that new grad RNs in LA are paid $34/hr starting at the beginning of the interview.

- When asked about core measures, all of them couldn't deliver one intelligent answer.

and a lot more...

Looking back, I asked myself if I ever acted as arrogant and privileged as the ones I encountered. Most of the ones the new grads I interviewed have this air... like they have mastered a craft. Like I should be rolling out the red carpet for them.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

I must agree that you find poor nurses at both ends of the spectrum. Certainly, some new grads cannot function well on the job. However, I have also worked with a couple of seasoned nurses who shouldn't be on the job either.....as in sleeping when they shouldn't be and refusing tasks that we as a team are responsible for. There's all kinds in the workplace.

[CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN]

Core measures are a JHACO standard for treatment of certain diseases, shown to improve patient outcomes. If you don't know what they are you best get to learning them. They are required to remain JHACO certified, which is required for top tier Medicare reimbursement. Which means other insurance will follow suit soon in requiring them. They add more every year. The newest one that came down the pipe just this week is a requirement to give the pneumonia vaccine to all diabetics. Makes the head spin.

Mentioning a planned vacation comes when an offer has been made and compensation is being negotiated. Not in the first interview. At least not if you want the job offer.

I've been in LTC for the last 15+ years and never in a JHACO certified building....I didn't have any idea what a "core measure" was but guessed it had something to do with some regulations. Not many LTCs in my area are JHACO

[CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN]

Well, the OP really hasn't been back to comment. Looks like she came on to vent and got torn up. I have no idea what experience the OP has since I didn't look at her profile, but you learn things real quick in LTC. When we use the initials LTC most people think a smelly nursing home with "old" people that are warehoused until they die. Not true. Most facilities (both large and small) still do have a long term unit(s) but more and more will be having shorter term skilled or sub acute units and some with intermediate care units.

A charge nurse title can mean anything depending on the shift and size of the place. In a smaller place, it might just be the person in charge of the shift and they would have an assignment just like the other staff nurses. They might or might not have another supervisor on duty overtop of them. Or...this person could be the desk nurse and be the only supervisor on that shift or in the facility.

OP sounds like she is in a larger facility where they have the DSD and time to allocate for a nice orientation. 36 hrs with DSD and then two months??? Nice for a LTC and should be more than adequate for orientation (I'm assuming they would even be flexable with adding some depending on the need) Not many offer this and it sounds like if they would go to the trouble they would somewhat supportive.

I've seen quite a few new grads come into LTC and do just fine...depending on the support they have and orientation they get. Ive seen some seasoned nurses come to LTC and do just fine too (as long as they had an open mind and realized it was different from acute care) I've seen some that didn't do as well.

OP was venting.

[chevyv, BSN, RN]

I'm not sure OP was venting. She's way too new herself to vent about this topic. I can only add that I'm so happy I don't work for that place!

[Music in My Heart]

- Someone coming into the interview with a wrinkled nose and irked expression and said that she can smell the BM from the floor

Sounds like more of an indictment of the facility than of the newbie nurse.

- Someone who wrote "expert in IV medication preparation"; when asked what's their experience on it, she stated she's been a vet nurse and she's been doing those a lot.

Mixing IV meds for an animal's no different than it is for a human... I'd think she may be right in her self-assessment.

- Someone who said they are not available for the first two weeks of April as they are going on a cruise

Nothing unreasonable about that... In fact, it demonstrates responsibility.

- When asked about core measures, all of them couldn't deliver one intelligent answer.

I'd have had no clue about what you were talking about... I'd have spun an intelligent line of crap.

[mazy]

In regards to the vet tech, who has a lot of relevant experience that she seems eager to translate into "human" experience, if anyone thinks that handling demanding patients and families is difficult in nursing, it has to be a hundred times worse dealing with animals and their demanding families.

To me, that sounds like someone who has a lot to bring to the table. Not for a charge position -- I somehow overlooked in the op that it was a brand new nurse interviewing brand new nurses for a supervisory role -- but definitely someone who has the necessary skills to transition into human care.

[RCBR]

These candidates are the pits. But in their defense, an interview is your best and last chance to sell yourself to the employer, to show why you are better than the other candidates. And it is a fine line between sounding confident in your skills (which is what you want) and arrogant (which you don't want). These candidates just lack the ability to distinguish between the former and the latter. As for core measures, it seems unfair to ask a new grad to elaborate on it. I don't think this is a concept covered in the ADN or BSN curriculum.

[rnpatrick]

Whoever decided that state boards could be reduced from two days of testing to one hour if you get enough questions right and who decided that nursing instructors have to be phd's and master degreed, 30-40 years of experience counts for nothing. That's what you get. Still, don't blame new grads. As it is stupid to interview new grads for charge positions. Change the criteria and keep interviewing.

[Music in My Heart]

Whoever decided that state boards could be reduced from two days of testing to one hour if you get enough questions right and who decided that nursing instructors have to be phd's and master degreed, 30-40 years of experience counts for nothing. That's what you get. Still, don't blame new grads. As it is stupid to interview new grads for charge positions. Change the criteria and keep interviewing.

Statements like, "you get what you pay for" become cliches for a reason.

It's obviously absurd to hire a new grad into a charge position. The only reason that they're doing so is because the market permits them to and they can get them cheap, Cheap, CHEAP.

And I'll resist the urge to begin another one of my "the NCLEX is a joke" rants.

[Hotfornursing, RN]

There is NEVER a reason for nurses to eat their young, how UNPROFESSIONAL can you get!!!...this attitude is unbecoming in a profession where we all have worked so hard to get to this point, no one should be expected to put up this this type of behavior, grow up ladys!!!..we should be willing to help groom our sisters in nursing, NOT eat them...just my two-cent :-)

[muesli]

I didn't learn Joint Commission standards until I went back to school for my BSN. Regarding the person who said they were going on a cruise in April: this happens sometimes that people have plans coming up with their family that were made way in advance, and most of the time I've seen employers make accommodations but not in all cases. She was being upfront about it. As far as whether she should have waited when she got the offer versus on the first interview, I would suggest keeping in mind that this is probably their first interview in nursing, and perhaps professionally ever. There is a certain interview etiquette - and I'm not talking about manners and dress, but about when certain things are discussed - which often none of us are trained on and we learn the hard way.

When you asked about core measures, did anyone say upfront that they didn't know what they were? If these are the only candidates you have to choose from, I would choose the person who made the honest response instead of pretending to know what they were talking about.

[muesli]

Wow I had no idea what vet techs did before this post. You all really have my respect.