Nurses eat their young - now I understand why.

[RN_Marie]

I started working for a sub-acute LTC as the DSD last week. The DON and I hit it off because we have the same vision on what we need to do in order to solve the problems we current have.

Early this week, we posted an ad for RN charge nurse with no experience required. We feel it's best to have trainable nurses even though they lack experience. I was tasked to interview for the position as I will be the one training them for the first 36-hours.

Needless to say, I was flabbergasted with the array of applicants we had and now know why the some nurses eat their young.

- New

RN

grad said she's been working as a CNA and knows she can do the job because there's not much difference between being a charge nurse and CNA

- New

RN

grad said that she'll consider our offer, so I asked if she is being offered another position (as we need someone full time). She said she's expecting an offer any day now since she finished the online application earlier this week (and she was not kidding).

- Someone coming into the interview with a wrinkled nose and irked expression and said that she can smell the BM from the floor

- Someone who wrote "expert in IV medication preparation"; when asked what's their experience on it, she stated she's been a vet nurse and she's been doing those a lot.

- Someone who said they are not available for the first two weeks of April as they are going on a cruise

- Someone asking for the pay, end up telling me that new grad RNs in LA are paid $34/hr starting at the beginning of the interview.

- When asked about core measures, all of them couldn't deliver one intelligent answer.

and a lot more...

Looking back, I asked myself if I ever acted as arrogant and privileged as the ones I encountered. Most of the ones the new grads I interviewed have this air... like they have mastered a craft. Like I should be rolling out the red carpet for them.

[RNfaster]

I'd still cut the vet tech some slack. Many of the same IV medications used in people are used in animals. Some of the same principles would apply (e.g., dosing per weight, incompatibilities, pump management). I think the vet tech had some good marketing skills --and some good IV skills. I would give him/her a second look.

Most new grads will not know core measures. I think the OP should lighten up a bit.

As someone coming to nursing after much experience in other fields, I was shocked at the substandard working conditions and low pay scale that many nursing positions entail. (And I took such a position --where I was working as an RN in a SNF and soon as a charge at wages I found out were the same as for the LPNs--because I needed a job and had no other options.) I think once people become entrenched in the field, they begin to think that it's acceptable and normal. Most people (not in healthcare) work in jobs with better staffing, breaks plus lunches, adequate equipment, pay commensurate for the work and education. (And --I think the LPNs deserved the wages and then some -per their experience --but those wages were pretty darned low...grrr...the company could do it per the economy...)

Part of me thinks the one new grad was a bit cocky for stating a high pay threshold... However, maybe some of us need a wake-up call. Don't you think nurses' pay should be higher (in many instances)? On the other hand, if the OP and her facility are unable to deliver the better pay amount, it will be better to find someone of a different (complacent) mindset.

I have heard that the younger generations wish to have more of a life/work balance. It sounds like you are seeing it in some of these applicants (e.g., cruise).

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Hmmmm, as someone with a 26 year previous career in dentistry, I'm dying to know what their "basic dentistry" knowledge is....

[LaRN]

Funny interviews

I don't think it really matters in the end how well someone interviews......because I know some really shoddy nurses that have mastered the interview process. Also, I know some very good nurses that don't always choose the right words and have even shown up for an interview wearing jeans. I would just look at them as a whole, and try to have general relaxed conversation with them to see if they are someone who would fit in with the scheme of things and conform to your needs.

[RNfaster]

I imagine that that excerpt is from the vet tech's resume and I bet it is under the heading of Vet Tech. What's wrong with it? This vet tech who now has a nursing degree has to get his or her first nursing experience somewhere. I think the experience from the vet setting will likely help them.

The vet tech should address translation of the veterinary skills in a cover letter and interview. I don't sense arrogance or cluelessness.

Nice that you are offering a two-month orientation.

I don't think any new-grad has a place as as charge nurse. I was made one two months into my first job at SNF/LTC. I was the only one with the RN title. Job market was dismal. I had resisted at first, but went along with it per pressure. I soon left that facility. There is nothing wrong with working SNF/LTC, but there is something wrong with working in an understaffed environment.

[DeLana_RN, BSN, RN]

Not having read all responses... I'm not surprised you get applicants that seem clueless.

As a new grad I would certainly not have applied for a charge nurse position anywhere - and certainly not in LTC (which I was familiar with, having worked there as a CNA and being aware of the high nurse/pt ratios). So those who think they are capable of starting out as charge nurse right out of school undoubtedly have a very high opinion of themselves and their nursing skills - justified or not.

P.S. None of this gives any nurse an excuse to eat their young (or their own - they do it to experienced nurses too. I should know.)

[PetsToPeople]

Ha ha. I worked as a vet tech many years ago (highschool). Necropsy for vets? means mostly, toss 'em in the deep freeze until crematory picks 'em up.

Your ignorance is astounding, especially how you generalize that everyone's vet tech experiance must be similar to yours. I personally have a lot of experiance in necropsy, especially in research, and I can find, isolate, remove without damage and preserve any organ in the body, including tiny little glands such as the pituitary...and I can do it in an animal as small as a mouse or larger animals.

And if you worked as a VET TECH in highschool, you were NOT A VET TECH you were an off the street, trained on the job vet assistant for crying out loud.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with what the vet tech posted on her resume because what she put was the truth. Although there are a lot of similarities between the human and vet world, I completely understand that there are a lot of differences. As a vet tech you are responsible for doing everything and anything that a human nurse would do within any dept of a hospital (granted we don't have CT scans, etc), problem solving all the equipment, etc. If the x-ray processor konk's out, I can manually process them...if the anesthesia machine is on the spurts, I can fix that too...if the CBC machine is acting up, I can do a manual count and so on.

No matter if you are working with people or furry animals, medicine is the same, it has a "feel" to it that you are either born with or your not and either your really good at it, you totally suck at it or it's just a job...I am really good at medicine, I love it, "nursing" (The profession or practice of providing care for the sick and infirm) is in my blood and it will always be a part of my life.

I have experiance in so many different areas that a nurse may never experiance in their lifetime, no matter how many departments he/she transfers to. I will be the first to tell you that all vet techs are not created equal, as are most nurses I am coming to realize, and the majority of the "vet techs" that open their mouths and give vet techs a bad name are not vet techs at all but vet asst's, because few vet techs leave the profession they love so much.

[Double-Helix, BSN, RN]

I ask you this, can you honestly say that you are a nurse when you have never functioned as one? When you have never performed any duties of a nurse? When you never had the opportunity to pick up the phone and call a doctor? When you have to tell a family that their father has passed away? When you've never given medications outside of the clinical setting?

Well, my state BON gave me an RN license after I graduated and passed the NCLEX, and they called me a nurse. It's the same RN license that someone with 20 years of experience has. So yes, I would call myself a nurse even if I had never worked as one. I earned that when I passed my NCLEX. I would call myself an inexperienced nurse, which is exactly what your applicants are saying. I'm not really sure what you expect- that they come into an interview claiming that they are unworthy of being called a nurse because they have no experience and begging you to train them? Hardly a good attitude to bring to an interview.

Also, I never said that the orientation is three days. It's a 2-month program. Plus, I don't interview graduate nurses that has just received their licenses. I want them to get the best experience they could have and I agree that is with the acute setting. That said, I selected candidates who had been in the job market for a year or so. People who do not qualify anymore to the new grad RN programs.

Okay, so you're not only interviewing new grads with no experience, you're interviewing the people who, for one reason or another, were unable to find a job in their first year out of school. I'll ask again- What did you expect?

I still maintain that your expectations are too high for your population. You're stating that you want someone who is trainable and experience is not required. Yet you're nit-picking responses to individual questions rather than looking at the applicant as a whole and assessing if they will be trainable and a good employee. You're writing them off based on their inexperience, which you specifically stated they didn't need to have.

I feel bad for those applicants. They were misled. Rather than offering then constructive criticism to help them improve their interview skills, you posted their faults on an internet forum for others to laugh at. That is exactly an "eating your young" attitude. OP, I wouldn't want to work for you.

[Pachinko]

The answer for dealing with these "privileged" new grads is NOT to "eat your young." Eating your young implies hazing, harassment, disrespect, and lack of professionalism. It has no place whatsoever in the workplace.

An student will rise or fall on his own merits; the best you can do is role model, teach, and remain honest. Don't become part of the problem.

[tyloo]

I sense some arrogance on this thread. I don't get why there is bashing of the vet tech especially someone who is not here to defend himself/herself. Humans usually don't bite back and if you explained a procedure to them usually there is some cooperation. Little fluffy on the on the other hand will meet you in fright or aggression.

Posting someone's portion of a resume on a nursing forum is not tactful either. People give a resume in confidence. What if the person who did this interview comes online and sees that? How would you feel? The person went to your facility for an interview not to be publicly ridiculed online.

[wish_me_luck, BSN, RN]

I agree 100% with PetstoPeople. But, then again, a lot of the other posters think I am a ding bat anyway. But, yeah, the vet tech can't put anything else as a position title because if that was the name of the position, they can't help that. I think the vet tech has a lot of potential. I have many friends who are vet techs or have served in that role, and they do have to do a lot. Also, I agree with some people being better at others at resume writing and interview skills.

And yes, Tyloo, OP is tactless in posting portions of the interviewees resumes online. If you want skills, by all means put experience required. There is no law that you have to hire new grads or people without experience. I wish interviewers would keep in mind that in this economy, people try so hard to get jobs and interviewers laugh in their face and make fun of them.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

.... :uhoh21:

[wooh, BSN, RN]

I've used my nursing skills on animals. Used to volunteer at the local humane society. Gave shots, drew blood. It's a lot like peds nursing, except you've got fur in the way. I have tons of respect for vet techs. And veterninarians! Vets have to learn all the stuff MDs have to learn, but vets have to do it with bunches of different species, MDs just have to learn it on humans. :)