Medical staff rude to my brother;complicated;advice please

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This past week was a difficult one for my brother. After caring for a lady with cerebral palsy for 14 years(She lived in), she died. It started on the 21st when he brought her into the ER due to stomach pain. After doing a scan, it was determined that she had terminal cancer and had to have surgery to assess/remove the tumors.

Before the surgery, two surgeons sat down with my brother(who had POA). One doctor was fine, explained the procedure and was very compassionate. The conversation with the other doctor and my brother went like this:

Brother: I want everything to be done for her.

Doctor: You have to think about her quality of life (He was referring to the fact that she had CP and that if she survived the surgery, her life would not be that great anyway)

My brother took offense to this as he felt that her CP should not matter and that the best care should be offered.

The same doctor also raised his voice to my brother when my brother requested that CPR be done if needed, telling my brother that her ribs would most likely be broken and "did he really want that to be done to her?"

Anyway, she made it through the emergency surgery. The doctors and nurses began to pressure my brother, telling him to call hospice as she was terminal. This was on the 22nd, a Sunday, He said that he would call but that he wanted to see an oncologist about her prognosis first. He knew that she was terminal but just wanted these questions answered. He also wanted her to have pain relief but not so much that she could not communicate.

On Monday the 23rd, the breathing tube was removed( her liviing will stated that she did not want life support). By this time, one nurse in particular was acting in a very odd way. Two examples a) A doctor noticed that the lady's oxygen had been removed and the nurse told the doctor that my brother requested that it be removed. He did not. and b) When they transferred the lady to another room, the nurse grabbed the wheelchair away from my brother and said, "I will push the wheelchair and you can be the candleholder". Now, I am not a nurse yet and maybe that is nurse-ese for something, but that comment just sounds off.

By Wednesday the 25th, she was still hanging on. My brother had still not seen the oncologist. Doesn't this seem weird? She has all of these major tumors but an oncologist could not swing by? So my brother stays with her and comforts her. He has still not called hospice. At 4pm, the social worker from the ICU floor rudely hands my brother a piece of paper with the name and number of a local funeral home on it, shakes her head and says in a snotty tone,"I am leaving. Call this number if you have issues. It's too bad you could not have called hospice" . My brother's friend died about four hours later.

I feel that the the first doctor, the nurse and the social worker acted inappropriately. Can I please get some insight from all of you? Were these people acting normal in their world?

I do have one question: This lady died within 5 days on the onset. Honestly, could hospice have been set up during this time, keeping in mind that two of those days were Sat and Sun?

Nursing is a 24 hr job and yes Hospice could have been set up that quickly.

I work with a guy who does Hospice on the side and he is on call on the weekends, specifically for situations like this.

And if she died 5 days within the diagnosis, this tells me the prognosis the doctors gave was correct. She was terminal and her last 5 days on earth should have been peaceful. When a person is diagnoised with a terminal illness, a palliative care consult should be a priority. I had a pt who walked into the ER complaining of a HA and was dead within 6 days because he had lung CA with mets to the brain. His last days were painful because he went through surgery, to dialaysis (due to kidneys shutting down) to 3 different pressors. And he was coded twice on top of all that.

Until you are actually a nurse and faced with these situations (and believe me you WILL be faced with them), you have no idea why the nurses and docs and other members of the healthcare team responded the way they did.

Until you are actually a nurse and faced with these situations (and believe me you WILL be faced with them), you have no idea why the nurses and docs and other members of the healthcare team responded the way they did.

I don't have to be a nurse to understand what rudeness is. I don't care how annoyed one is, it is wrong to thrust a piece of paper in someone's face with the name of a funeral home on it.

i am pretty well disgusted at the general tenor(sp) of the responses here. Handing someone the address of the local funeral home was utterly unforgiveable. The "candleholder" crack i am not sure what that idiot even meant.

and i dont see defensiveness in the op's response, i do see firmness of purpose, and refusal to back down....obviously some posters didnt not read through the thread before making their observations. why two docs with obvious diverse opinions? and why wasnt social work called to help with that.....i didnt go back and reread the SW comment, so cant comment on that, or was that where the FH address came from? the pain med issue, has anyone stopped to think that maybe he needed to confirm something with her, and given that opp. he would have no problem with any and all pain med after that??? again, i am aghast at the general mood of the responses here. Especially those aiming to demean the OP about her emphasize on her brother rather than the woman involved....that is the QUESTION she was bringing us, not a question about the woman's care.

edited to add: the only defensiveness i have seen on this thread is from those insisting that the brother HAD to be wrong.

Thank you for your kind words. I really do care for my brother. You see, he is an extremely skittish and gentle person. I am the *****..lol.

I have mentioned it before but his friend was medicated properly. My brother had requested that she not be so doped up she could not talk but the doc refused to allow her to be in pain at all. So all of you who are commenting about how she suffered at the end are wrong.

I think a lot of you are jaded and burned out. I hope I never get to that point myself where I find rude comments and yelling at people to be acceptable behavior.

Until you are actually a nurse and faced with these situations (and believe me you WILL be faced with them), you have no idea why the nurses and docs and other members of the healthcare team responded the way they did.

I don't have to be a nurse to understand what rudeness is. I don't care how annoyed one is, it is wrong to thrust a piece of paper in someone's face with the name of a funeral home on it.

But how do YOU know that's what happened???? Because your brother said so? You were NOT there, you are getting second hand info, as well as we are getting third hand info on this board. How do WE not know your brother was rude as well in all this?

Like I said, I'm not even pointing on the info if someone "thrusted" a peice of paper with a funeral home number on it in your brother's face (as you were told). All I'm saying is that the PATIENT should have been the focus here, NOT your brother. If the pt's wishes were NOT be intubated, or have any life support measures taken, then the pt's wishes should have been granted, PERIOD!

But how do YOU know that's what happened???? Because your brother said so? You were NOT there, you are getting second hand info, as well as we are getting third hand info on this board. How do WE not know your brother was rude as well in all this?

Like I said, I'm not even pointing on the info if someone "thrusted" a peice of paper with a funeral home number on it in your brother's face (as you were told). All I'm saying is that the PATIENT should have been the focus here, NOT your brother. If the pt's wishes were NOT be intubated, or have any life support measures taken, then the pt's wishes should have been granted, PERIOD!

and i repeat, HIS treatment (alledged) is the question she brought to us, not the patients treatment....how many times need we be reminded to answer the question asked, and not READ into it?

But how do YOU know that's what happened???? Because your brother said so? You were NOT there, you are getting second hand info, as well as we are getting third hand info on this board. How do WE not know your brother was rude as well in all this?

Like I said, I'm not even pointing on the info if someone "thrusted" a peice of paper with a funeral home number on it in your brother's face (as you were told). All I'm saying is that the PATIENT should have been the focus here, NOT your brother. If the pt's wishes were NOT be intubated, or have any life support measures taken, then the pt's wishes should have been granted, PERIOD!

And how can you be so sure that my brother is lying?

and i repeat, HIS treatment (alledged) is the question she brought to us, not the patients treatment....how many times need we be reminded to answer the question asked, and not READ into it?

Yes exactly.

and i repeat, HIS treatment (alledged) is the question she brought to us, not the patients treatment....how many times need we be reminded to answer the question asked, and not READ into it?

And it seems to me no matter how many times someone has told the OP why things could have went down the way it did (and even apologized for the treatment of her brother in a trying time), based on the info she was given by her brother, she seems to get defensive if nobody agrees with her.

And I find her comment offensive about nurses being burned out, just because they don't agree with her stance.

I'm a new grad working in an ICU and I'm no where near burned out, I just see things from the pt's side, the healthcare members side, and the family members side.

And how can you be so sure that my brother is lying?

I never SAID your brother was LYING! And how can you be soooo sure the healthcare members were rude????

And I'm done debating with you. My opinion will NOT change and I'm quite sure yours won't either, so I respectfully agree to disagree and move on.

And I find her comment offensive about nurses being burned out, just because they don't agree with her stance.

I'm a new grad working in an ICU and I'm no where near burned out, I just see things from the pt's side, the healthcare members side, and the family members side

Can you honestly tell me that some of the behaviors presented by the HCPs were appropriate?

I never SAID your brother was LYING! And how can you be soooo sure the healthcare members were rude????

And I'm done debating with you. My opinion will NOT change and I'm quite sure yours won't either, so I respectfully agree to disagree and move on.

I am not debating. I am pointing out there is another side and I think that irritates you.

I am not debating. I am pointing out there is another side and I think that irritates you.

lol, ya think?

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