MD screaming at RN's in front of patients regularly

[AtivanIM]

I currently work with an Psych MD that is also the Medical Director of a psych unit. I've never met such a rude doctor in my life! I'm a pretty new nurse and have only been working at the hospital for less than 6 months.

She likes to raise her hand to dismiss us if she does not want to talk. If you say, but Dr._____ it's important" sometimes I get a "NO" AND a hand dismissal before I can tell her what is important. So of course I document and tell my charge. She is like this with other nurses and MHT's as well.

The other day she was heard throughout our small hospital, psychiatric youth unit, scream "GET OUT!!!!" to a new nurse and MHT. We have been using the medical treatment room to record height and weight (the only scale on the entire unit), take initial vitals, and remove clothing to do a skin assessment and contraband check. It's where our managment has told us to do it. We are in charge of all admissions and assessments on the unit, and often the ambulance just rings the bell and we have no clue what is on the other side.

Not to mention, this was done while a child was sitting inside the room, terrified because this was her first admission, with the door open to the community milieu, and her parents on the other side of the unit. How unprofessional can someone be? Apparently she had deemed this her "office", didn't mention it to ANYONE, and just went off because she can.

The tech who is a 20+ year veteran was hysterically crying and said " no one has every spoken to me like that in my life!" She was quickly given an extra 30 minute break by the appauled RN's to calm down. When this issue went up to management we heard one say "well, that's just the way Dr._____ is" while another manager came on the unit and told us he would handle it. He hasn't.

I've seen a tech told "you need to leave now, your not allowed on this unit" in a loud harsh tone as soon as she the MHT came into the room to listen to report. This happened in front of at least 15 people, including MHT's, Nurses and Therapists. I was later told by managment it was a "personal issue". Personal issue?! We were down an MHT, now having an unsafe level in staff because of a "personal issue."

One RN who took the issue to HR because of the verbal abuse was called the very next day by the DON to tell her that they didn't think that she was ready for a full time position and she would have to stay PRN, with no explanation.

I have worked with this nurse and she is attentive to our patients, never has any errors, is friendly with staff, and an all around great nurse in my opinion!

I would leave the facility STAT, but can't due to financial reasons and leaving a job this early into my nursing career seems like professional suicide.

If she was horrible all of the time it would be different, and more predictable, but she has many mood swings throughout the day and you never know what mood she will be in. Will she treat us like professionals or rip our heads off because we dare touch a chart (paper charts) that she hasn't reviewed yet. There is no way of knowing which charts she has reviewed while she is there so it's constant anxiety if we see her coming to put everything in it's "place." She is exceptionally more nasty with female staff.

I'm normally an assertive person. I've gone head-to-head with the Director of Nursing and the president of our school when an entire class was failed, and won! Almost the entire class, of mostly "A" average students were not kicked out of the program. The nursing instructor was fired, years of tyranny going out the door with her.

I've been nothing but respectful and "sweet" to this MD so it could never come back on me. But, enough is enough! It is not in my nature to not stand up for what I believe in. If she was not additionally the Medical Director of the unit, I wouldn't be as concerned with backlash.

What would you do?

Have you ever been insulted to a similar degree?

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

Sometimes, your first job in nursing is a complete bust. It's OK, it happens. Look for another job. In the meantime, document and file incident reports as others have advised. Tell HR in your exit interview that the doctor's behavior and the company's unwillingness to do anything about it is THE reason you're leaving.

[Novo]

Sad. You know if everyone stood up for themselves people would actually respect nurses. I would never let anyone talk to me like that Dr. or otherwise just on a matter of principal I'd rather be fired than be disrespected.

I have a hunch that she thinks she can yell at you just because she went to medical school and with her messed up logic that makes her better than you.

[FurBabyMom, MSN, RN]

I would look to find a new nursing job as soon as you can! Get the heck out of there! But before you do, you need to file incident reports and talk to HR and/or your manager and their manager about it. Write the doc up. They deserve it. You could also report it to the state agency that oversees your facility. And potentially to the state medical board.

My first nursing job was a total bust - all kinds of horrible things my coworkers did but worse was, my manager (and her manager, and her manager's manager) cared more about staffing numbers than things that could be legal problems. Yah, okay. Pssh, I started looking for new jobs before I'd been there 8 weeks. I only stayed 13 weeks. Everyone who was guilty that I'd reported time and time again are no longer at that facility, including my former manager. My second job I stayed the rest of the year I've worked so far. It was a pay cut and neuro med surg tele, so some of our patients were brutal. But it was much better than the first job. I've switched jobs again to focus on a specialty, (I hope to stay with this healthcare system for a long time as things are great and employee satisfaction is good from year to year).

It's not professional suicide. You just have to be smart about it. I made the choice at 7-8 weeks into my job that my license and well being were more important than what looked good for work history on a resume. I'm young, and I spent 4.5 years at one non-nursing job in high school and college so that proves I can and will do it, given the right circumstances. You have to frame the situation as positive as possible when looking for a new job.

[Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM]

This happens because the facilities allow it to happen.

[mikala3]

We have a lateral violence policy where I work. It says that things need to be handled in private. If anyone is rude to anyone for any reason in front of a third person, that's a voilation of policy and a write up. Not that doctor's still arent rude, they are. They just do it over the phone.

[lindarn]

Document, document, document. Note, day, time, witnesses, etc. I would not be above filming her with my camera phone.

Please report this physician to the hospital, Risk Management, and don't forget the State Medical Board. I would go so far, as to contact the law firm who represents/defends, the hospital. And speak to the Senior Partner.

I reported a physician to the State Medical Board a while back. The individual who I spoke to, told me that he wished that nurses would ALWAYS report physicians when they act like this, are incompentent, etc. It starts a paper trail on the physician. This way, in a couple of years, when the you know what hits the fan, and the physician is finally being held accountable for their incompetance, the physician's attorney cannot tell the Medical Board, that his/her, client has an immaculate record- no complaints whatsoever. And he would probably be right. No one ever files a complaint to the most important agency of all- the State Medical Board.

Also, my usual mantra- make copies of every and all Incident Reports for everything. If/when the time comes, your documentation will still be in your possesion, and even if it, "disappears", you have the original copies. They can and will disappear and it will be your word against theirs- and theirs usually will win, and you will get thrown under the bus.

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN,CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

[Staragate, ADN, ASN, RN]

The ANA has a webpage just for workplace violence: Bullying and Workplace Violence

You might contact your union rep.

[aboucherrn]

Many facilities have a physician reporting system. She has a boss, too... there is no reason she should be treating ANYONE like this!

[RN/stilllearning]

I totally agree! Most of them are nutcases themselves! I worked with an anesthesiologist like that once. He actually cussed me while putting in an epidural for a patient! I was new to this unit and I was always taught to be very professional and I quickly apologized to the patient (in front of him) for having to hear such unproffessional behavior. She gave me an understanding grin and I suppose I would have fallen dead on the floor if looks from him could have killed!

[KimberlyRN89, BSN, RN]

I'm painting with a broad, anecdotal paintbrush here-- but in my experience many MD's/psychologists drawn to the psychiatric medical profession to begin with, are nutcases themselves.

I wish I could like this twice!!

But I agree with the consensus that it's a good idea to job hunt while you're still employed. Don't feel trapped..this isn't a healthy atmosphere .

[Guest343211]

Holy crap. I think I have to break from these forums. They are depressing me.

And no, not all physicians are @#$%s.

Sounds like she needs some anxiolytics or something. I'd have to just look at her like she had 6 heads. She would not believe how persistent I can be, and I don't have to say a word.

I agree with the others. Sounds like yet another dump; b/c the other nurse got crap for support from management.

FIND ANOTHER POSITION. Seriously, and keep more than one--per diem, whatever. Too many places won't side with good nurses when they are right, unless they are somehow in the inner circle, politically speaking--and even then, people who were on the "inside," shoot, I've seen them get screwed if it worked in admins or someone else's favor.

Key survival tip: Always have more than one position in nursing--always have a back-up. You won't regret it, and you can more easily maintain your standards and not be an object of oppression.

[AtivanIM]

Thank you all for your replies! I feel more motivated to look for new employment, regardless of my current work schedule of 50+ hours weekly that leave me physically and mentally drained. I finally feel like my concerns are validated and this Dr. should be reprimanded for their obscene behavior!!!

Since you all have been so receptive, I would like to ask a few more questions so I can truly be "smart" about this...

I had been told, when I asked a manager on what incidents were reportable, that to write them if in doubt and if the management feels that it is unimportant that it can "just be ripped up." With the management wanting to push this under the rug, do you think that my incident reports will go through the proper channels?

I believe that it says on the IR, or at the very least I was told that an IR cannot be copied. Is this true? I do not want to violate any laws but I need a paper trail as was posted earlier.

Would a time stamped word document to each incident be used as evidence to the Medical Board I plan on reporting her to? I am still very concerned with backlash, as I have seen it myself happen to competent nurses in the facility and was told by senior members of the facility that "it's best to stay under the radar around here."

Since jobs are a rarity in our city right now, I feel like I have to stay at this facility until I have another job lined up or will be in financial ruins. How would you handle this situation if you knew that if you lost the job you could lose your home? Basically, what my safest and most effective plan should be. Regardless, if I did happen to lose my job, I would be hell-bent on this MD losing her licence. I really feel that she is so explosive with the staff on our youth unit, that it could trigger some of our kids, which at least half of our census is post-suicide attempt and can be as young as the age of 5.

I really love what I am doing, I will work extra hours if I know that I could possibly save or change a life. This is especially true with our abused or CPS children that will admit after a couple of days in my care, that they have always felt like no one cares about them, a very disheartening theme with these kids. I always tell them that when they feel like no one cares they can bet that their nurse, AtivanIM will always care about their well-being and will never doubt their potential as individuals. The most rewarding part of my job is when a child writes me a thank you card or draws me a picture before they leave. I also get asked for a hug regularly before they leave. Although I've heard staff tell them this is a "boundry issue", I will give them a big hug anyway because who knows how long it will be until they get a genuine hug from someone who cares.

Your advice and replies are not only appreciated but extremely refreshing as I had been doubting the severity of the situation because of the guilt of possibly losing my families financial security. Thank you all in advance if your willing to reply!