MAs call themselves Nurses at my office..opinions please? - page 4

Hi, I have been an LPN for 2 1/2 years and am a new Grad-RN since 9/2011. I got a job working at a Dermatology Office last November. It's the only job I could get, and I am making the best of... Read More

  1. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    0
    Certified Medical Associates have an Associates of Science degree here. They go to the community college for 2 years. It is more than twice as long as the LPN program (9months) and the same length as the ADN program. I have no idea what the curriculum entails and I don't really care. That really wasn't the point. I do think, hypothetically, if I had an associates degree and the (hypothetical) LPN next to me did not, I'd be a bit peeved if you "demoted" me to that status, lol.
    They don't call themselves nurses in our office anyway, so you can relax. As it is, we don't happen to have any LPNs. We have a dozen or so CMAs, and one RN. The MAs are very specific to say the are "CMAs," not "MAs" and not nurses. They are clearly very proud of being CMAs. They do not want to be confused with nurses. It is not a step-up in their eyes, at best a lateral move. However, they absolutely do not want to be mistaken for CNAs. They want to be sure people understand CNAs go to "training" for 2 weeks. They go to community college for 2 years. Probably longer with the pre-reqs. I will admit to previously having been very ignorant, thinking them to be interchangeable with CNAs. I have been set straight on this point, lol.

    They do take a professional licensing exam. They sit for the American Association of Medical Assistants’ Certification Examination to become Certified Medical Assistants.
    American Association of Medical Assistants (AAMA)
    The American Association of Medical Assistants' Certifying Board has collaborated with the NBME since 1977 to provide high quality test development, administration, scoring, and psychometric services in support of the CMA (AAMA) credentialing program. The Certified Medical Assistant (AAMA) credential is awarded to medical assistants who have completed an accredited postsecondary medical assisting program—including a practicum—and passed the CMA (AAMA) Certification Examination offered by the AAMA’s Certifying Board. The exam is a rigorous assessment of the knowledge necessary to perform medical assisting administrative and clinical procedures. Following initial certification, the CMA (AAMA) must recertify every five years by continuing education or exam to demonstrate continued competence. For more information about medical assisting and the CMA (AAMA) credential, visit the AAMA website at: www.aama-ntl.org.




    OK, I C&P the curriculum from the local CC for you. 6 full time semesters, 101 credit hours including pre-requisites.

    MEDICAL ASSISTING PROGRAM ASSOCIATE DEGREE
    PRE-REQUISITES: ENG 090; MAT 060; RED 090; CIS 110, 111, OR 113; OST 080 OR 131


    Humanities Electives: ART 111, ART 116, HUM 110, HUM 120, HUM 121, HUM 122, HUM 123, HUM 130, HUM 150, HUM 160, HUM 211, HUM 212, HUM 220, MUS 110, MUS 112, MUS 113, PHI 210, PHI 215, PHI 240, REL 110, REL 111, REL 112, REL 211, REL 212, REL 221, SPA 111, SPA 112, SPA 211, SPA 212.
    *Course work which can be completed prior to admission to the program CANDIDATES MUST MAINTAIN A 3.0 TO PROCEED.


    Expository Writing
    Orientation Med.
    Law & Ethics
    Admin. Procedures I

    Exam Room Proc. I
    Prof. Research & Reporting Terms II
    Admin. Proc. II
    Drug Therapy

    Lab Proced. I
    Exam Room Proc.. II
    Externship
    Clinical Perspective

    College Accounting
    General Biology I
    General Chemistry I
    Medical Coding/Billing

    Symptomatology
    Prin. of Mgmt.
    General Psychology
    Principles of Public Health

    Intro. To Communication
    College Algebra
    Admin. Proc. III
    Anatomy & Physiology I
    Anatomy & Physiology II


    just wanted to also point out that CMAs must recert every 5 years, which is more than nurses in some states have to do. now who sounds more "professional," lol.
    Last edit by BlueDevil,DNP on Oct 20, '12
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  3. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    0

    Course
    BIO 163 Basic Anatomy & Physiology
    NUR 101 Practical Nursing I
    PSY 150 General Psychology
    Select one of the following:
    CIS 110 Basic PC Literacy
    CIS 113 Computer Basics
    Spring
    Course Name
    ENG 111 Expository Writing
    NUR 102 Practical Nursing II
    NUR 117 Pharmacology
    Summer
    Course Name
    NUR 103 Practical Nursing III
    TOTAL CREDIT HOURS
    47-48

  4. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    0
    That's the same school, LPN program, which, by the way, requires a only 2.5 as opposed to a 3.0.

    The point of all this is that the medical assistant bashing in this thread is misplaced. From a anthropological point of view it is interesting. Nurses have to feel superior to someone, so they kick around the MAs. OK, intellectually I understand why. My point is, you picked the wrong group. Many MAs are licensed professionals and better educated than half the people here who call themselves nurses. On this forum it has become generally accepted dogma that LPNs and RNs deserve the same title and respect, so by the same token you are going to have to extend that to MAs, be they the degreed or diploma brand. In short, I think you need another group to feel superior to. Perhaps you should be trash talking the hospital volunteers.
  5. Visit  tnbutterfly profile page
    4
    The point of the thread was not to bash or disrespect MA's or anyone else but to state that it is not correct for anyone to call themself a nurse if they have not earned that title. MA's deserve respect...but that has nothing to do with their title.
    HazelLPN, BuckyBadgerRN, wooh, and 1 other like this.
  6. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    4
    Not all states have CMA status and I don't get the feeling there is any trash talking. As a nurse with a Doctoral degree I am sure you understand the legalities of someone using the title "Nurse" and it has become legally protected in most states which has also been supported by the ANA......
    Title "Nurse" Protection :Title "Nurse" Protection

    Background

    Restricting use of the title "nurse" to only those individuals who have fulfilled the requirements for licensure as outlined in each state's nurse practice act is a protection for the public against unethical, unscrupulous, and incompetent practitioners. Nurse practice acts describe entry level qualifications such as education, practice standards and code of conduct for continued privilege to practice nursing. Limiting use of the title "nurse" to only those who have satisfied the licensure requirements ensures the protection the public deserves.

    At least 37 states are known to have language in their Nurse Practice Act; either explicit in restricting use of the title "nurse" to only those who are licensed or implicit language restricting use of any words implying the individual is a licensed nurse.....

    AR, AZ
    , CA, CO, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, KS, KY, MD, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NM, NY, NC, ND, OK, OR, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, WA, WV, WI, WY

    Related Resources

    The OP intent was calling attention to a situation in her office and not necessarily pertaining to your place of employment nor your state. The MA's, in your state, take a certification exam and not a licensing exam.
    nursel56, dirtyhippiegirl, wooh, and 1 other like this.
  7. Visit  dirtyhippiegirl profile page
    0
    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    That's the same school, LPN program, which, by the way, requires a only 2.5 as opposed to a 3.0.

    The point of all this is that the medical assistant bashing in this thread is misplaced. From a anthropological point of view it is interesting. Nurses have to feel superior to someone, so they kick around the MAs. OK, intellectually I understand why. My point is, you picked the wrong group. Many MAs are licensed professionals and better educated than half the people here who call themselves nurses. On this forum it has become generally accepted dogma that LPNs and RNs deserve the same title and respect, so by the same token you are going to have to extend that to MAs, be they the degreed or diploma brand. In short, I think you need another group to feel superior to. Perhaps you should be trash talking the hospital volunteers.
    From some of your previous posts on this forum, it's obvious that you feel superior to non-NP nurses. What makes your DNP any better than a BSN other than your scope of practice?
  8. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    0
    I don't know where you got such an idea, dirtyhippygirl, for nothing could be further from the truth. I have spent the plurality of my career as a non NP. I am not so much into self loathing. I feel neither superior nor inferior to anyone. You have essentially given voice to the quintessence of my own posts in this thread, lol.

    Your second query is a different thread for a different time.

    The primary debate in this has been, should medical assistants refer to themselves as nurses. We are in perfect agreement, no, they should not. Nor should nurses not as qualified as medical assistants refer to themselves as thus. Can we agree on this as well?

    Statements such as "they like the status bump" or something to that effect (I'm not going to go back and look) seem to imply that medical assistants are somehow "less than" nurses, were interpreted by me as pejorative. If there were not then intended to imply (incorrectly as it turns out) that medical assistants are inferior in status or education to nurses, I am not sure how I misinterpreted the meaning of this remark and others of the vein that I shall not bother to go back and quote. Forgive my misunderstanding then. I am quite sure the posters meant something else entirely. I'll wait with interest for them to explain what it was they did mean.
  9. Visit  pink_shoes99 profile page
    0
    Wow, what state do you live in? My nursing curriculum looked nothing like that. I also noticed you added the pre-reqs in with the CMA's curriculum. And MA's are certified, not licensed, there is a difference. The main issue is when someone hears the title "nurse" they expect someone who has a certain knowledge that is taught to nurses. MA's are taught the how, LPN's are taught the how and the why and the what to do, and are exposed to much more through clinicals and such. With all this being said, I do not think MA's are any less than me, it is not a battle of who is better, it is a matter of what is legal and what is not. And like someone else says, the only person who matters is the patient anyway.
  10. Visit  lindarn profile page
    2
    MY nursing curriculum in my Diploma program:

    NURSING FUNDAMENTALS
    ANATOMY & PHYSIOLOGY 1 & 11
    MICROBIOLOGY
    CHEMISTRY 1 & 11
    NUTRITION
    MED SURG I II III
    PHARMOCOLOGY PEDIATRICS OB PSYCH NURSING
    SPEECH and ENGLISH
    CHILD PSYCH AND ADOLESCANT PSYCH

    MY BSN program added:
    PATHOPHYSIOLOGY
    ORGANIC CHEMISTY
    INORGANIC CHEMISTRY
    PUBLIC HEALTH NURSING
    PSYCHOLOGY
    SOCIOLOGY
    AMERICAN HISTORY
    COMMUNITY HEALTH NURSING
    A PLETHORA OF OTHER CLASSES AND REQUIRED ELECTIVES

    I am sure that I left other classes out.
    The point is that MAs learn how to be, "gofers", for doctors in an office setting., and to do tasks.
    RNs and LPNs, are TAUGHT how to care for patients, and their special medical/surgical needs, observe changes in their condition, and KNOW how to react and treat, the changes in the patients' condition.

    Yes, MAs have their place, but for an MA to state to a patient or family member, that they are, "just like a nurse", is fraud, and deliberatly misleading, and devalues the education, skills and knowledge of REAL nurses.

    JMHO and my NY $0.02
    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    HazelLPN and DSkelton711 like this.
  11. Visit  DSkelton711 profile page
    2
    It's very simple, really. If you are not a licensed nurse--you are not a nurse. The title carries with it a certain level of responsibility and education (not time, but content). A CMA/MA should identify themselves appropriately, and then docs and patients will catch on. I drew blood and ran lab tests but never called myself the lab technician. Same with taking xrays. I am a nurse because I went to school to be a nurse and took my boards and passed, earning my title of RN or Nurse. I have been taught the nursing process as well as disease process. I can function in a doctor's office or a hospital. The same cannot be said for a CMA/MA. CMAs/MAs should be proud of what they do and also be protecting their title as they earned it. Badges should include title so the public is aware of who is caring for them.
    HazelLPN and lindarn like this.
  12. Visit  BlueDevil,DNP profile page
    0
    Again, "gofer" is rude, condescending and inaccurate.

    I don't know why you insist this behavior, but I don't think we are ever going to get anywhere here, so I'll leave you to your notions, such as they are.
  13. Visit  mchssrn8813 profile page
    0
    At the place I work at the CMAs refer to themselves as nurses and having been through CMA school and now going through nursing school, it really irritates me as it is no where near the same. I brought this up to my manager who is RN BSN MSN, and said , "wouldn't it bother you if both you and I were working side to side and I got called nurse ?" And she said " no because the job description says 'clinical nurse/CMA " ... I completely disagree
  14. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    3
    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    In this state, it takes 2 years to obtain a CMA degreee and 9 months to get a LPN. The MAs would be offended to be called a nurse, lol.
    Most CMAs I know train for six months. One of the LPNs who worked with with me when I did MICU is now an instructor at the at the vocational school in the medical assisting program. The LPN program at the same school is 18 months. You'll never see a CMA as an instructor in an LPN program because an LPN is trained to work in a variety of setting including primary care, long term care, acute care, home health, psych nursing and some work in community nursing such as in public schools. CMAs are good in primary care settings, but are not appropriate for any other setting because they do not have the same level of training or focus as an LPN or an RN. CMAs do not participate in clinicals in med/surg, peds, psych, OB, LTC, etc and are not trained to do anything but work in primary care under the direction of the physician or an advanced practice RN.

    Why would a CMA train for two years, the same amount as an ADN? My guess is that its the way that the community college can make more money by keeping students 18 more months than they need to be in school.

    To somehow imply that a CMA is superior to an LPN is silly as an LPN can legally do the job of a CMA, but a CMA can not legally do the job of an LPN.

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    nursel56, TheCommuter, and lindarn like this.


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