Lazy, demanding staff

zuchRN · Mar 8, 2003

l.rae: at no point did I say I cannot handle my staff. It is not about "handling " staff. It is about working together to create a better outcome. I only want the best for the residents. That is why I audit the charts, check treatments and educate. I do not dump more on the good nurses and let the weAk nurses off. I do not generalize.

The on;y time I post reminders or have a special in-service is when I find a problem to be widespread. The remainder of the time, I address the problem itself, or the problemed individual.

I cannot tell from your post if you are classifying me as poor management or not; however, I can tell you that you cannot judge someone whom you do not work with, and you most definately cannot generalize.

Like I stated before, there are good managers and poor managers. There are good nurses and poor nurses. It is a very individualized thing.

I would also like to know exactly where the buck was passed?

l.rae · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by zuchRN
I To the antimanagement people, I ask, what are you doing to help to make the situation better? Or are you just complaining to hear yourself talk?

IMO....you are assuming all those who complain are antimngmt........that is what l call passing the buck...l can't tell from your post if you are calling ME antimngmt for expressing VALID complaints about bad mangmt.....big difference here...so LISTEN...not ALL mngmt......whenever ppl express valid complaints and concerns and mngmnt turns it around to make them feel as though they are doing something wrong by expressing these concerns....then l feel it is because that particular manager is too lazy/ineffective to deal with it.....you ask...do we complain just to hear ourselves talk???...well it feels that way sometimes when it falls on the ears of ineffective mngmnt......l am just judging by your responses and others.....you right, l don't know you....maybe you are crackerjack nurse and manager......you are right...l don't know....just reading between the lines.

ChainedChaosRN · Mar 8, 2003

I guess I'm still wondering how a lazy nurse is the result of bad management? No one has yet answered that one.

allnurses Guide · Mar 8, 2003

. . . . maybe because the lazy nurse wasn't counseled by management to change, was given some help to change and then was NOT fired when she did not change.

The lazy nurse is ultimately responsible for her own behavior . . . .however bad management never does anything about it.

just a thought . . . :)

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by stevielynn
. . . . maybe because the lazy nurse wasn't counseled by management to change, was given some help to change and then was NOT fired when she did not change.

The lazy nurse is ultimately responsible for her own behavior . . . .however bad management never does anything about it.

just a thought . . . :)

In addition:

Good managers have would have no shortage of good nurses, if pay, supplies and conditions are adequate - if these conditions are poor - management has more control over them than staff nurses do.

As a travelor, I have taken jobs that I normally would have avoided, because the manager made the situation tolerable. I have renewed contracts because the manager wonderful. And I have had them not renewed because said wonderful manager had a enough hires to staff without travelors. And that's cool.

I have also left really good hospitals or turned down assignments because of lousy management.

If the MDs treat you like crap, supply staff are lacking and pharmacy abusive, it is a reflection of how management feels about its' nursing staff. A good manager will insure that his/her staff is treated well - or at least humanely. A poor manager doesn't give a flip.

And a good manager will have all the staff that s/he can handle from those of us that have been burned by poor management.

kids · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by baseline
Middle management is NOT for the weak or wimpy! the vise tightens ever tighter from staff and administration. Atlas himself would have trouble !

Thank you, that is very nicely put.

Middle managers hear the most complaints coming "up from below" but have the weakest voice when passing those complaints up the food chain. Most middle managers go to work every day assuming it will be their last, why? because they are the first throat cut when there is even the slightest ripple of "disharmony" among upper managers/admin. It sucks big time to not be able to change things for the people who are actually taking care of the patients day in and day out and it sucks even more when you have to tell those people "I know what you are talking about and I know how you feel but I have tried and tried but there is NOTHING I can do about it".

Originally posted by caroladybelle
...Good managers would have no shortage of good nurses, if pay, supplies and conditions are adequate - if these conditions are poor - management has more control over them than staff nurses do...

Another good point but I have to ask...how much control do you (not you directly caroladybelle...the 'collective' you) think that you unit manager has over these sort of things? In EVERY unit mgr position I have held (3) I had no control over it...yes, I could ask, requsition and even beg but in the end the decisions came from up above. Even something such as firing someone for doing a half-azzed job had to have admin approval (the warm body effect)...crud, for that matter I had to get admin approval to suspend someone who I felt was truely a HAZARD (they wouldn't let me, I left the job...saw about a year later she had lost her license due to gross negligence). I don't just think it was me, I have nursing friends and family who are even now in the same situations.

I think *we* as a group need to identify at what level management is being "bad"...many "bad" unit managers may be doing everything in their power to effect change but their hands are tied from above BUT they possess to much professionalism to point the finger upward for all the staff to see so they go on taking the heat and bust their rears (and their hearts sometimes) to make the best of a bad situation because they do care about the patients and the staff.

layna · Mar 8, 2003

I work in a small OB department and I genuinely care for all of my staff. They are great people...sometimes they have bad days and behave badly...and so do I sometimes...as long as we all feel free to communicate our feelings with each other. It is like being a big family! :-) The one thing I think that we all need to concentrate on is doing what we can do as individuals to improve our workplaces and profession. As far as "management vs. union", it doesn't have to be that way. I actually enjoy working with our union rep. She always has a dichotomous perspective on everything! :-) I saw an interesting quote the other day:

"We are all leaders...because everyone influences someone in this life."

Every one of us- managers and staff- need to look within ourselves to ask what WE can do as individuals to make our work environments and profession better and stronger.

Peace within the chaos of this life...

Layna

l.rae · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by ChainedChaosRN
I guess I'm still wondering how a lazy nurse is the result of bad management? No one has yet answered that one.

because lazy mngmt refuses to get rid of them and expects hard working staff to pick up slack......there, now you know.

l.rae · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by layna
I work in a small OB department and I genuinely care for all of my staff. They are great people...sometimes they have bad days and behave badly...and so do I sometimes...as long as we all feel free to communicate our feelings with each other. It is like being a big family! :-) The one thing I think that we all need to concentrate on is doing what we can do as individuals to improve our workplaces and profession. As far as "management vs. union", it doesn't have to be that way. I actually enjoy working with our union rep. She always has a dichotomous perspective on everything! :-) I saw an interesting quote the other day:

"We are all leaders...because everyone influences someone in this life."

Every one of us- managers and staff- need to look within ourselves to ask what WE can do as individuals to make our work environments and profession better and stronger.

Peace within the chaos of this life...

Layna

layna, you sound a lot like my NM.....whom l totally respect and am thankful for.....in my 23 yrs nursing l have had the worst and the best.....sounds like your nurses are lucky.

ChainedChaosRN · Mar 8, 2003

l.rae....in case you are not aware of it, lazy/bad nurses have to go through a "firing" process. Unless it's a grave offense many can not just be handed their "pink slip". Which is a good thing, because that process protects many from someone in management that might not just like someone's personality, the way they dress, look, speak etc.

Most of us have had the unwelcome experience of working under bad management. Bad management does not create workers with poor work ethics. With that illogical train of thought, everyone working under bad management would eventually be lazy. Even the reverse of that train of thought, good management does not produce a good nurse. You either have the ability and the ethics or you don't.

Maybe it's time we only point the finger at the person not doing their job.

ZuchRN had a good point, what are the nurses not in management doing about the problem... peer pressure works wonders. Good nurses picking up the slack will eventally burn out any good worker.

I've used peer pressure in management when I've had another department start to slack because if we are a team, it will eventually affect my department. Direct approach is the best: Hey...I see this taking place, it's eventually causing this...and that won't work. What can WE do to fix it or what can I do to help you get back on track. If the slacker doesn't eventually do the job, I speak to my supervisor.

But do nothing and point fingers, nope...that's not good enough. Put those critical thinking skills to work.

RyanRN · Mar 8, 2003

Here's just one example (of something?!)

Busy bee nurse fills in every single box on every single piece of paper, completes every single extra form created by the hospital, JHCAHO, and the health dept., follows up on every single lab or change of pt. status, charts litigously, caters to familes for the sake of PR, makes most of the inservices, labels every single IV and piece of tubing, updates the careplan, EVERYDAY, yadayadayada.

Lazyass nurse does the bare minimun, completes no forms, (I didn't know we had to do THAT one),doesn't change out of date IV sites, leaves treatments for the next shift, disappears or takes lunch during visiting hours, EVERYDAY. yadayadayada.

Everyone KNOWS who's doing what, and yet the Busy Bees are chastized by being forced to complete the undone stuff, make sure everything is updated, has to review all the forms and get charts and tasks up to par and this happens EVERY SINGLE DAY.

BusyBees and Lazyss Nurses are both still employeed. And although we realize the prediciment middle managment is in, we are also TOLD to folllow the chain of command, and YOU'RE IT!

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place with no place else to go. That's part of your job too.

SingingNurse2 · Mar 8, 2003

:eek:

Oh my goodness! As a nursing student you guys have scared me to death! Are there NO good workplaces? Will I have NO rights? Am I dooming myself to a horrible existence?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Or as the famous quote goes:

"CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?"