Is this Ethical? - Page 3

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  1. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from ocnrn63
    wrong. the fact that the doc pressured her to do it, then offered her money makes it coercion. and i have no idea what an ma is doing performing exams that require a speculum and tvus.
    we disagree. there is no evidence of coercion by the md. he offered her money the second time which is an incentive commonly used with models. coercion would be if he threatened her job but i saw no evidence of that in the thread. did you?

    as for the exam, i don't believe it is per se illegal as most scopes of practices are written vaguely. if the tvus and speculum exams do not include assessments, it might be legal but completely ridiculous.
  2. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from Whispera
    Not certified in anything...just started the job...you're male...the doc was in the room watching...money was offered when the woman at first refused...she was upset afterwards...

    This is a lawsuit waiting to happen, brought on YOU and the doctor by the woman involved. How about if the doctor and the woman set this up to get YOU?

    I sense coercion toward woman, to comply. What would have happened if she didn't accept the money to have the test done?

    MAs don't insert speculums. First day at work? You could be Joe off the street!

    RUN from this job...
    OMG! The poster is male??? There. are. no. words.
    redhead_NURSE98!, roser13, and VivaLasViejas like this.
  3. May 13, '12 by
    I guess I assumed the poster was a female. Whole new level if that is inaccurate.
    Purple_Scrubs likes this.
  4. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from vicedrn
    we disagree. there is no evidence of coercion by the md. he offered her money the second time which is an incentive commonly used with models. coercion would be if he threatened her job but i saw no evidence of that in the thread. did you?

    as for the exam, i don't believe it is per se illegal as most scopes of practices are written vaguely. if the tvus and speculum exams do not include assessments, it might be legal but completely ridiculous.
    if she felt threatened for not participating, that's coercion. the fact that she was crying about it afterward indicates that the situation distressed her.

    i would be willing to bet that if she went to a lawyer, she would easily have a case.

    this "ma," or whatever he is had no business using a speculum on the woman, let alone a transvaginal ultrasound. what would the point be for him to do either? the whole situation is so skeevy it sounds like something out of a porn film. it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this sicko doctor had a hidden camera filming the whole thing.
    tokmom, blondy2061h, nursel56, and 4 others like this.
  5. May 13, '12 by
    Wow. Thank you to those of you who understood that I was asking, as some one brand new to all of this, for advice on how best to deal with this situation. And for the record I am a 26 year old female. Why anyone assumed I was a male I am not sure. Spencer is my dogs name, not mine. I will not feel ashamed about my part in what happened. The other woman and I were both taken advantage of by a doctor who has been practicing for thirty years and is a board certified pathologist and surgeon and a faculty/staff member at the most prestigious hospital in the city that I live in. Of course I trusted him.
  6. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from VICEDRN
    We disagree. There is no evidence of coercion by the MD. He offered her money the second time which is an incentive commonly used with models. Coercion would be if he threatened her job but I saw no evidence of that in the thread. Did you?

    As for the exam, I don't believe it is per se illegal as most scopes of practices are written vaguely. If the TVUS and speculum exams do not include assessments, it might be legal but completely ridiculous.
    Absolutely NOT and you should feel horrible for even thinking this is OK on any level. There are many factors at play for her reason to say yes, maybe she felt her job could be at stake, she felt pressured by the authority figure (boss)...not everyone has a strong personality and they should not be allowed to be taken advantage just because they can't stand up for themselves, society is supposed to protect it's weak members and I am sure she wouldn't have a problem finding a lawyer who would be more than happy for sue him for more than $50.

    LEGAL for an MA to due a pelvic exam? Speechless...
    wooh likes this.
  7. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from ocnrn63
    if she felt threatened for not participating, that's coercion. the fact that she was crying about it afterward indicates that the situation distressed her.

    i would be willing to bet that if she went to a lawyer, she would easily have a case.

    this "ma," or whatever he is had no business using a speculum on the woman, let alone a transvaginal ultrasound. what would the point be for him to do either? the whole situation is so skeevy it sounds like something out of a porn film. it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this sicko doctor had a hidden camera filming the whole thing.
    the op has indicated that she felt distressed because the patient has pcos and didn't care for the ugly reminder of the situation (ie the visual u/s photos)

    as someone who worked as a paralegal for 5 years, including several years at one of the worl's premier labor and employment firms (seyfarth shaw), i can assure you that no lawyer on the planet would take her case. she has no damages whatsoever. she has no evidence of demotion/pay reduction/hour reduction and no evidence that someone coerced her into doing anything.

    the fact that he asked twice over the course of the afternoon indicates nothing.
    Jerlick likes this.
  8. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from spencer475
    Wow. Thank you to those of you who understood that I was asking, as some one brand new to all of this, for advice on how best to deal with this situation. And for the record I am a 26 year old female. Why anyone assumed I was a male I am not sure. Spencer is my dogs name, not mine. I will not feel ashamed about my part in what happened. The other woman and I were both taken advantage of by a doctor who has been practicing for thirty years and is a board certified pathologist and surgeon and a faculty/staff member at the most prestigious hospital in the city that I live in. Of course I trusted him.
    Although I feel the doc is the one ultimately responsible for this rediculousness, you should both take responsibility for your part in this. You should have said no, no matter what your experiance you should have know on a basic level that a doc bribing the receptionist $50 to let you practice a pelvic on her and after she said no once, was wrong. She should have not allowed herself the be intimidated/coerced and should have stuck with "no". Serious lesson learned.

    I have a very strong personality and I have been coerced at work to do things I did not necessarily agree with due to fear of losing my job, going against the group, the herd mentality, caught up in the action, etc.
    OCNRN63 likes this.
  9. May 13, '12 by
    Quote from PetsToPeople
    Absolutely NOT and you should feel horrible for even thinking this is OK on any level. There are many factors at play for her reason to say yes, maybe she felt her job could be at stake, she felt pressured by the authority figure (boss)...not everyone has a strong personality and they should not be allowed to be taken advantage just because they can't stand up for themselves, society is supposed to protect it's weak members and I am sure she wouldn't have a problem finding a lawyer who would be more than happy for sue him for more than $50.

    LEGAL for an MA to due a pelvic exam? Speechless...
    Do you have a legal authority that demonstrates an MA can not collect a culture via speculum? Or that they are not licensed to do ultrasound? Also, please not I said "might" be legal. I have no idea if ultrasound requires a special licensure but when I think about it, RNs bladder scan without licensure or specific training so I don't see why not.

    I don't feel horrible and I think your post borders on the reportable to the moderators as a personal attack. No one indicated that anyone threatened the woman. She consented to the exam in exchange for $50. Society is not supposed to protect people from themselves. Sorry. She choose to participate and there continues to be no evidence in this thread that she was threatened with any type of repercussion for not participating.
    mrmedical and Jerlick like this.
  10. May 13, '12 by
    This entire thread just makes me wish I could take my brain out and give it a good shower right about now.
    HeavenlyRN, Autymn, nursel56, and 3 others like this.