Has anyone had a pt's family member take pictures of you during care?

Nurses Relations

Published

Okay, the weirdest thing happend yesterday at work. (Why do I always get the nuts???) The doctor was examining the pt and the pt's wife was holding up her phone. I thought she was looking at something on the phone, but thought that it was odd the way she was holding it up. After the doctor leaves, I am in the process of settling the pt back down and I hear a click. I looked at the pt's wife and asked if she took a picture? She said yes. I asked if I was in it and she said yes, but that was okay, right? I told her that I didn't like people taking pictures of me at work. She brushed it off and said that I was not doing anything wrong, so it shouldn't be a problem. OOOKKKAAAYYY! I really felt like this was a problem. I don't want my picture plastered on the net or something. Don't we have at least a molecule of a right to privacy regarding our picture being taken or since we work with the public, is that right out the window? Any thoughts?

Specializes in Critical Care.
You know how when we went to school we learned "book nursing", and then there was "real nursing". The textbook definition of how things should be done and what happens in real life ARE GROSSLY DIFFERENT in nursing.

Same thing happens with the law. There is the text book interpretation, and then there is real life. Its kinda like what we learn in grade school. The schools rules say no fighting (the text book law). On the other hand, the playground rules are quite different (real life). Upset the class bully and, well, you got it coming when no one is looking. Ask any kid who had to spend recess hiding or had to run home fast as lightning to keep the "playground rules" from being enforced on them.

Same thing applies here. The textbook law states you may photograph people in public and it is without consequence. :rolleyes:

I challenge anyone who really believes this to go out, right now, with a camera, stand on a street downtown and do so. Then, come back and give us report on how long it was before "the class bully" took your camera (over under odds are it happening at 20 minutes) and what injuries you sustained while it happened. And to tie a nice bow on it, also tell us how many times the police laughed when you told them you wanted them to spend the day looking for said bully..........if they bother showing up at all.

People like the one who annoyed the OP will be bold and hide behind the "textbook law" for as long as they can. But, eh, well, wait till she meets the person who doesn't like it who doesn't feel they have to worry about losing anything for retaliation (and it won't be long). It could be the local meth. addict who goes ballistic on her, might be the town drunk, may be a respectable gentleman who just got told he is not getting a raise this year and wasn't in the mood. Mark my words though, one day she'll take a pic and all of a sudden someone will be on her like a wolf.................and the law won't do her a bit of good.

See, no matter how bad you think you are, there is always someone worse out there. Whether you are "bad" in the sense that you are willing to break someone's arm to get a pic of yourself off their phone or "bad" in the sense that you hide behind/abuse the law and harass people.......................there is always someone worse.

So are you saying a nurse who forcibly takes a visitors phone because they were taking pictures (legally) would be less "bad" than the person taking the pictures and that the police would take the side of the arm-breaker?

In "real life" people take pictures of other people all the time, welcome to the "real world" post 1995. Maybe you live in a really bad part of town, but in general police do take assault/theft/vandalism seriously on a fairly consistent basis.

If someone finds 55mph to be to high of a freeway speed limit and is offended by me driving 55mph, am I "hiding behind/abusing the law" by driving speed limit? Could the person who believes the speed limit should be 30 run me off the road without worry of the police getting involved because I failed to abide by their personal values regardless of the law?

Physically taking someone's belongings out of their hands is both theft and assault, if you were to delete any images it is considered vandalism. I'm not a big fan of having my picture taken either but I doubt that in the "real world" I'd be keeping my job if charged assault/theft/vandalism while on the clock and I doubt the police would look the other way because "they took my picture".

Specializes in M/S, Travel Nursing, Pulmonary.
So are you saying a nurse who forcibly takes a visitors phone because they were taking pictures (legally) would be less "bad" than the person taking the pictures and that the police would take the side of the arm-breaker?

In "real life" people take pictures of other people all the time, welcome to the "real world" post 1995. Maybe you live in a really bad part of town, but in general police do take assault/theft/vandalism seriously on a fairly consistent basis.

If someone finds 55mph to be to high of a freeway speed limit and is offended by me driving 55mph, am I "hiding behind/abusing the law" by driving speed limit? Could the person who believes the speed limit should be 30 run me off the road without worry of the police getting involved because I failed to abide by their personal values regardless of the law?

Physically taking someone's belongings out of their hands is both theft and assault, if you were to delete any images it is considered vandalism. I'm not a big fan of having my picture taken either but I doubt that in the "real world" I'd be keeping my job if charged assault/theft/vandalism while on the clock and I doubt the police would look the other way because "they took my picture".

No, I'm saying someone in the habit of taking pictures of people who don't appreciate it, and continues to do so, will run into the wrong person eventually and regret it. Not necessarily a "nurse", but hey, nurses have bad days too and can unfortunately turn into the bully eventually.

Not saying its right, just saying in RL, its going to happen.

Nor am I saying they'd "look the other way". Hey, you might get lucky and have a younger officer eager to impress answer the call. But honestly.........most cops I know will tell you to file a report and be done with it. I've seen police not show up for worse things than a camera being taken away.

Specializes in Emergency.

What about recordings? I've had pts say, "I'm going to record everything we talk about." I've only had that happen twice, but I just said, "okay," b/c I wasn't doing anything wrong and didn't really care if they recorded me. It did make me uncomfortable though.

Specializes in Critical Care.
What about recordings? I've had pts say, "I'm going to record everything we talk about." I've only had that happen twice, but I just said, "okay," b/c I wasn't doing anything wrong and didn't really care if they recorded me. It did make me uncomfortable though.

Unlike photography or silent video, audio recordings are illegal under wiretapping laws and must have consent or a court order. That being said, our CHF discharge teaching is a qualis project and part of the "class" qualis gives to family and caregivers prior to discharge encourages them to record the discharge teaching with video/audio if they have it available, not really a bad idea.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Umm that's a bit much! Really battery.... come on now.... also when someone takes MY picture without MY consent then the line is crossed. Nice to see that you would stick up for your "employees".....

And as the person who had their picture taken WITHOUT consent I would file criminal charges.. im sick of people in this situation nurses feeling like they have NO rights whats so ever what is this world coming too!?

:twocents:

I stand behind my employees and I would hate to see them involved in criminal charges because of a rash action. Reguardless of what you think...grabbing someone elses personal property is battery. If you have read the entire post you willl see about the right of privacy and the expectation of privacy. I have actually see this be charged as battery to an employee (not my employee because they are made aware of how to deal with situations like this and I personally deal with the family and request the photo to be deleted) although the charges were eventually dropped it was extremely difficult on the nurse.

I agree it is intrusive but there are no laws protecting nurses in this situation......yet. You are at work which is classified "public gathering area" therefore the assumption of privacy is not there. If you were in the bathroom "exposed and the patient took your picture your privacy is invaded because of the expectation of "privacy" No pictures with your pants down so to speak......but like the lady who fell into the fountain. She cannot sue for privacy violation because the is not an asssumption of privacy. You are out in public.......anyone can photo you. I understand what you are saying but the laws have NOT kept up with technology.

This argument has as of yet been argued in the courts and I believe there is a lot more to come......but as of today it is a hospital policy issue not a privacy issue. Hospitals don't like picture because of the libality implications. The patient is protected because there is the assumption of priivacy....their room is their "temporary" personal space......their home. Sad but true. I try to protect my staff from potential cluster----'s when right now the rulings are not in their favor. I give them the tools of knowledge to avoid these situations all together. YOu also need to think about filing "crminal charges" while acting as the hospitals agent.....some facilities have pretty strict confidentiality clauses and conflict of interest clauses....corporate doesn't like bad press! :twocents::twocents:

Specializes in Emergency.
Unlike photography or silent video, audio recordings are illegal under wiretapping laws and must have consent or a court order. That being said, our CHF discharge teaching is a qualis project and part of the "class" qualis gives to family and caregivers prior to discharge encourages them to record the discharge teaching with video/audio if they have it available, not really a bad idea.

Well, it wasn't an educating situation - they were trying to be threatening, like, "If you mess up, I'm gonna have it on tape." The pt with the worst attitude though had to stop recording because his cell phone died! Which, I thought was kind of funny. :lol2:

To highjack just slightly--Esme, are you saying that a nurse is also not able to file charges against a patient who physically assaults him or her because it would be a confidentiality violation? (You'd have to name the individual patient.) If so, then I guess all the discussions that we've had here about this topic are pretty much moot.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
To highjack just slightly--Esme, are you saying that a nurse is also not able to file charges against a patient who physically assaults him or her because it would be a confidentiality violation? (You'd have to name the individual patient.) If so, then I guess all the discussions that we've had here about this topic are pretty much moot.

It depends on the hospitals point of veiw.........technically publically naming a patient can be interpreted as a breach of confidentiallity and when you are acting as the hospitals agent. Read your confidentiality agreements carefully they contain alot more than you think.........depending on policies and procedures/conflict of coporatre interestsired because of this very thing......yes it can be a breach of confidentiality. I have seen nurses persucuted and fired for this very thing.........but we as nurses should prosecute those who assault us. Im just saying hospital big wigs dont like the bad press and you maybe unaware of the consequences.

In Canada patients have and are charged with assault. Admission to a facility doesn't give you carte blanche to assault another human being.

unlike photography or silent video, audio recordings are illegal under wiretapping laws and must have consent or a court order. that being said, our chf discharge teaching is a qualis project and part of the "class" qualis gives to family and caregivers prior to discharge encourages them to record the discharge teaching with video/audio if they have it available, not really a bad idea.

no, that's not a true statement in the broad sense.

it depends on the state:

although most of these statutes address wiretapping and eavesdropping — listening in on conversations of others without their knowledge — they usually apply to electronic recording of any conversations, including phone calls and in-person interviews.

federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. a majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. thirty-eight states and the district of columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. these laws are referred to as “one-party consent” statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state supreme court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)

twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. those jurisdictions are california, connecticut, florida, illinois, maryland, massachusetts, michigan, montana, nevada, new hampshire, pennsylvania and washington. be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as “two-party consent” laws. if there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping.

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
Oh your right let people/patients walk all over you :) that's a much better plan

Nah, I don't let people walk all over me. I just know that the chances of a police officer racing to the hospital to arrest a patient's family member for taking a picture of me are just about nil.;)

Umm that's a bit much! Really battery.... come on now.... also when someone takes MY picture without MY consent then the line is crossed. Nice to see that you would stick up for your "employees".....

And as the person who had their picture taken WITHOUT consent I would file criminal charges.. im sick of people in this situation nurses feeling like they have NO rights whats so ever what is this world coming too!?

:twocents:

People have the misconception that a photographer must have your permission to take a photo. Not the case in general, particularly in public places. Even a shopping mall, while owned privately, would be considered a public place under the law.

Members of the public have a very

limited scope of privacy rights when

they are in public places. Basically,

anyone can be photographed without

their consent except when they have

secluded themselves in places where

they have a reasonable expectation of

privacy such as dressing rooms, restrooms,

medical facilities, and inside

their homes.

Note that the "medical facilities" mentioned applies to patients, not staff. A hospital can have a policy against patients taking photos of staff members, and can post signs to that effect. The chances of a criminal charges being filed against a patient's family member for taking a photo of a staff member, however, are extremely remote. In fact, family members have used photography/videography successfully against hospitals, nursing homes, and health care workers in civil court.

Forcefully taking someone's cell phone or camera, however, can get one in big trouble criminally.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

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