Diversity.. at what price? - Page 7

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  1. Aug 21, '11 by
    Quote from psu_213
    I don't agree with the hiring of individuals only to create a more diverse workplace; however, I don't think it is right to deny a qualified applicant because they have a thick accent.
    if they have a thick enough accent where communication is unintelligible, then the applicant shouldn't be deemed as "qualified".
    and that should be nm's job (or whoever interviews candidate in nsg) to screen out the ones who are difficult to understand.

    i'm even more dismayed that there are nurses who just *shrug* away its value, as anything less than fundamental.
    communication can/does make the difference betw life and death.
    not being dramatic, but realistic.
    it doesn't matter if the misunderstandings happen betw foreigners or citizens...it's irrelevant who it is.
    it just needs to be addressed, period.

    btw btdt, your title is spot on.

    leslie
    hey_suz, Been there,done that, Not_A_Hat_Person, and 9 others like this.
  2. Aug 22, '11 by
    Dude. If you're so good with computers why can't you show who you were quoting in your post? And why do you have to scream your post? I'm not really middle age but I'm old enough to respect that the members here who are 40's 50's and older are from the generation that INVENTED computers. Their generation was writing code before it was dumbed down for the masses to be able to use.

    Your implication that older people don't understand computers is absurd! I can post html code pics but I work a lot and can't spend hours searching for cute code pics. On the positive side since I work and make a lot I can afford technology that many can only drool over. Oh and I DO know how to use ALL of it.

    As I said oldies understand computers we just don't post in text or post myspace comment codes. Any "oldie" poster here here can spend the time to search for code to put up a silly pic of someone hiding behind a couch thus swaying opinion and in effect mobbing the OP into backing down on her stance.

    Some oldies choose not to search for cute code pics because that's way too like 'myspace.' This has always been a professional site where people are allowed to vent. BTDT has a very valid vent and a right to be heard. You missed my point entirely.

    My point wasn't newbie against oldie. It actually isn't all about you this time.

    It's about the problems caused when we allow to many foreigners to take over our profession. Tell you newbies what I'll do. When I have enough money to retire I'll change my political stance and encourage as many foreign nurses to be imported to the US as possible.

    It's about nursing in the US and protecting our turf. A simple lifting of Visa restrictions could easily render your hard won license almost worthless. Trust me it almost happened before.

    I'm weary of highly vocal "insulted" newbies that are trying to shame posters like BTDT. She has a valid vent about language problems. Others vent about the dangers of importing masses of foreign nurses. Perhaps you just haven't experienced the problems caused by these issues yet.

    Seriously, AN wouldn't be very informative if all oldies are shamed into shutting up completely    . Stop eating your old!


    Quote from john wiklund
    All posts so far by newbies...Interesting.
    Exactly. The newbies haven't 'been there' or haven't been nurses long enough to have worked in a large city where you are the only native English speaking person around.

    Also if someone posts a cartoon of ducking under a couch just after you post your valid vent, it tends to sway posters to think what you said is shameful.

    You have a valid vent/issue/complaint that many veteran nurses have dealt with. I'm glad you're not afraid to post something that some think isn'tpc" enough for their tastes.

    I liked Karen's post/suggestion.


    ... AND THAT MAKES YOU GUYS OLDBIES...?


    JUST MAYBE... YOUNG PEOPLE ARE MORE USED TO A MORE INTEGRATED AND DIVERSE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY.... AND HAVE LESS OF A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING PEOPLE... AND USING COMPUTERS ...


    OLDBIE
    Ruby Vee, Merlyn, caliotter3, and 12 others like this.
  3. Guide
    Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from johwiklundRN
    ... AND THAT MAKES YOU GUYS OLDBIES...?

    JUST MAYBE... YOUNG PEOPLE ARE MORE USED TO A MORE INTEGRATED AND DIVERSE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY.... AND HAVE LESS OF A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING PEOPLE... AND USING COMPUTERS ...

    OLDBIE
    I prefer Old Bee. Or Old Bea. How insensitive of you to not automatically know the proper way to spell what I am and how I want it spelled!! So what if it's counter-intuitive? Really -- the nerve of some people!!

    I don't think diversity is defined as how poorly some people speak English. I would say that 90% of my co-workers who came to the US from other countries speak clearly enough so it is not an issue at all. That doesn't negate the fact that they add diversity to the workforce. Some of them are even in their 40s!!

    I don't believe there is some cutoff time when a person becomes incapable of getting rid of a heavy accent.
    ohiostudent'RN likes this.
  4. Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from fuzzywuzzy
    Understanding accents can be very difficult. But you know what else is difficult to deal with? Lazy people. And dopey scatterbrains. And we all have to deal with them too. If the person with the accent is a good worker I'd gladly accept them as a coworker.

    It's pretty insulting to have others imply that the reason for not being a jerk about accents is just because it's not politically correct. And this:



    seems just a little dramatic to me.
    I wish it were just dramatic. I have seen this happen more than once during my THIRTY YEARS as a nurse.
    I am consistently amazed that new nurses feel they can judge a someone with vast experience.

    Can you imagine a doctor, teacher, lawyer doing this?? But.. I digress.
    Merlyn, nurse15dc, againmlg, and 5 others like this.
  5. Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from DeLana_RN
    Native English speakers are able to lose a regional accent if they only try; foreigners, however, who learned English after a certain age (usually age 10), are never able to completely lose their foreign accent; the older they were when they learned English, the stronger their accent tends to be. No speech therapy can help someone totally lose their foreign accent (it this were possible, don't you think Arnold would have lost his long ago?)

    That said, maybe nurses with extemely heavy accents shouldn't work in areas where clear oral communication is important.

    DeLana
    Clear communication is always, and in evey dept., important
    Last edit by rn/writer on Aug 22, '11 : Reason: Unhelpful comment.
    Been there,done that, caliotter3, and HIPPIECHIKRN like this.
  6. Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from DeLana_RN
    What I don't understand - who hires people who are unable to clearly and safely communicate? Don't they have to interview with their manager and/or HR?

    DeLana

    P.S. Just to clarify - I'm a non-native English speaker myself, having learned it in school starting in 5th grade (which is why I wasn't able to totally get rid of my foreign accent; however, others tells me it's very slight). If, however, I had any trouble speaking English, or had a heavy accent, I would have never decided to study nursing (in the U.S., BTW), or entered any other profession where clear communication is important.
    The problem is that unless the applicant is unable to find the room for the interview (because they cannot follow directions or read signs) and/or is completely unable to converse (and I do mean "completely") with interviewers, no HR will deny employment for fear of a discrimination suit. It will be the responsibility of other staff to ensure that there are "no misunderstandings".

    The international standards, for the practive of medicine internationally, are English and French, and this is set by those agencies and bodies that provide care on a multinational basis. Hmmm.

    The French Foreign Legion spoke nothing but French. If one could not follow directions, one was beaten or given other physical incentive(s) to raise one's level of comprehension. Sounds brutal; the truth, however, being that the more blood and effort one invests in training, the less one bleeds in battle. In our circumstances, others do the bleeding, so I suppose that's a subjective moral equation for some.
  7. Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from Been there,done that
    I wish it were just dramatic. I have seen this happen more than once during my THIRTY YEARS as a nurse.
    I am consistently amazed that new nurses feel they can judge a someone with vast experience.

    Can you imagine a doctor, teacher, lawyer doing this?? But.. I digress.
    All the woes of the nursing profession can be laid at the feet of older, experienced nurses. Didn't you know that? Those of us with experience should just get out of the way so the new nurses can replace us and have their utopia.

    <sarcasm, since someone is bound to take this seriously>
    Ruby Vee, Merlyn, againmlg, and 7 others like this.
  8. Aug 22, '11 by
    Quote from Been there,done that
    I am consistently amazed that new nurses feel they can judge a someone with vast experience.
    Agree. The judgemental attitude of new nurses is getting very old.
    Ruby Vee, Been there,done that, NJMike, and 1 other like this.
  9. Aug 22, '11 by
    I worked in England at a time when we had many Finnish and Swedish nurses coming over to work. We traditionally always already had many African and West Indian nurses. I never had any problems communicating with them. Some people said they did. Some perhaps genuinely had a problem, however I found very often found that those who did were either very impatient, intolerant types, or in some cases actually exaggerated the problem because they liked telling "shock, horror" anecdotes, or even worse, they simply liked laughing at foreigners.

    I wonder if any of the critics have actually ever had the boot on the other foot? I came to work in France with a reasonable knowledge of French but spoke with a heavy British accent. I didn't nurse here until I was confident in my fluency, but those first months in a strange system and a foreign language are scary. I have found most French colleagues overwhelmingly helpful and accomodating. In those early days if I mispronounced something they only had to politely ask me to repeat myself, I'd repeat it slowly and carefully and they'd usually understand. However, the rare occasions people snapped or mocked really hurt. After ten years here it's fine, but still occasionally if I'm tired - giving handover at the end of a 12 hour night shift - yes, some words escape me or I speak some Franglais. It is very rare that I'm given a hard time about it but it can still give you complex. I've got all the slang and the idioms now - but that doesn't come quickly and NO language course ever gives you that.

    Hence I will now go out of my way to be patient and helpful to newcomers with levels of French inferior to mine. We had an influx of Spanish nurses a few years back - some people complained about the way they spoke French but most of us understood them fine. And yes, if I had an anglophone colleague of course we'd speak our own language at coffee break - only natural.

    If you're frustrated by a colleague's accent or style of expression, they're twice as frustrated as you. Give them a break. No nurse sets out to be incomprehensible.
    DaretoDreamRN, Not_A_Hat_Person, sharpeimom, and 2 others like this.
  10. Guide
    Aug 22, '11 by
    Thread closed temporarily.
    wooh likes this.