Diversity.. at what price? - Page 11
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Sep 14, '11 by rn/writerThere is a big difference between having an accent and having an accent so thick that the message can't be understood. If there are problems with usage and fluency in addition to the accent, communication is in jeopardy and so are the patients and the staff.I happen to know that half of M.D. working in John Hopkin Hospitals speak with accents, if language is a primary concern and can affect the quality of work, than John Hopkin would not hire them.
Technology is great and should do much to help reduce errors, but you will never replace human beings entirely, nor do I think most of us want that.
I just wish there were some parity between the expectations of immigrants who want to work in other countries and the expectations in the US. -
Sep 23, '11 by Been there,done thatQuote from madfowlMy patients have most certainly found that from me.Ithink that it is best for you to seek employment where you dont have to worry about dealing with accents . Your patients deserve a nurse who is open minded, and non judgemental.
I have worked in many areas and many states and make it a POINT to assure that they can understand me.
It is the very fact that I am open minded and non-judgemental that I started this thread.
It is with a true concern that communication is the key to patient care. All patients deserve a care giver that understands them... and vice-versa.
I cannot begin to understand how that concern can be construed by you as making judgement towards an un-intelligible accent.
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Sep 23, '11 by bookwormomWell, I hope I'm not getting off track here, but here is a patient perspective: In the rural area I live in, many of the doctors have been educated in other countries. They come to us for a few years and then move on. Sometimes we're lucky enough to have a few that settle down for good. Some of them have very very heavy accents. I'm alert and I listen carefully, but it's very hard sometimes to know what they are saying. One of my doctors told me, "You are having PBBs". I said "PBBs?" "Yes", he said. So I thought about it a while, and realized he could only be saying PVCs. I think it must be very hard for older people and those who don't hear well. It's painful for me sometimes, trying so hard to listen.
I have no solution, although it would not hurt for everyone to be reminded to speak slowly, to avoid mumbling, and to face the person they are speaking to, if possible. -
Sep 25, '11 by DaretoDreamRNQuote from DavidFRI worked in England at a time when we had many Finnish and Swedish nurses coming over to work. We traditionally always already had many African and West Indian nurses. I never had any problems communicating with them. Some people said they did. Some perhaps genuinely had a problem, however I found very often found that those who did were either very impatient, intolerant types, or in some cases actually exaggerated the problem because they liked telling "shock, horror" anecdotes, or even worse, they simply liked laughing at foreigners.
I wonder if any of the critics have actually ever had the boot on the other foot? I came to work in France with a reasonable knowledge of French but spoke with a heavy British accent. I didn't nurse here until I was confident in my fluency, but those first months in a strange system and a foreign language are scary. I have found most French colleagues overwhelmingly helpful and accomodating. In those early days if I mispronounced something they only had to politely ask me to repeat myself, I'd repeat it slowly and carefully and they'd usually understand. However, the rare occasions people snapped or mocked really hurt. After ten years here it's fine, but still occasionally if I'm tired - giving handover at the end of a 12 hour night shift - yes, some words escape me or I speak some Franglais. It is very rare that I'm given a hard time about it but it can still give you complex. I've got all the slang and the idioms now - but that doesn't come quickly and NO language course ever gives you that.
Hence I will now go out of my way to be patient and helpful to newcomers with levels of French inferior to mine. We had an influx of Spanish nurses a few years back - some people complained about the way they spoke French but most of us understood them fine. And yes, if I had an anglophone colleague of course we'd speak our own language at coffee break - only natural.
If you're frustrated by a colleague's accent or style of expression, they're twice as frustrated as you. Give them a break. No nurse sets out to be incomprehensible.
Bravo!!!!!!!! - Guide
Sep 25, '11 by nursel56Quote from Been there,done thatIt's a false argument with the message that if you were just as tolerant, non-judgemental, open minded and inclusive as they are, you will be able to understand a heavy accent. In other words they are asserting their superior character, and no amount of explaining seems to sway them at all.My patients have most certainly found that from me.
I have worked in many areas and many states and make it a POINT to assure that they can understand me.
It is the very fact that I am open minded and non-judgemental that I started this thread.
It is with a true concern that communication is the key to patient care. All patients deserve a care giver that understands them... and vice-versa.
I cannot begin to understand how that concern can be construed by you as making judgement towards an un-intelligible accent.kids and Been there,done that like this. -
Sep 26, '11 by MerlynThis thread is getting silly. Every one speaks with some kind of accent. if I don't understand some one I ask them to repeat. But I have an out- I wear hearing aids.Not_A_Hat_Person likes this. -
Sep 26, '11 by Ruby VeeQuote from englishhyacinthbegging your pardon, but i must work in the same place as the op. the examples cited are not exceptions to the rule. foreign nurses and physicians may read and write english without difficulty but speaking and being understood in english not so much. add to that cultural differences such as the physician who believes females should not look him in the face and the one who demands that females "do not question" him . . . i understand her pain. clearly you do not.the examples you cite are exceptions to the rule.
foreign physicians are required to pass stringent tests that measure their ability to comprehend and communicate in english.
my advice to you is patience. learn to listen without bias. you may find that communication carries on without much hassle. - Sep 26, '11 by Ruby VeeQuote from ohiostudent'rngranted, i've only made it as far as this post, but i haven't seen any "hateful rhetoric" being spouted, although this post is pretty offensive.i stand behind my couch posting (yes pun intended)
and it is shameful to spout hateful rhetoric regarding people just because they are not like you.
take my post whichever way you will....
p.s newbie and darn proud of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Sep 27, '11 by Rob72Originally Posted by ohiostudent'RN
I stand behind my couch posting (yes pun intended)
and it IS shameful to spout hateful rhetoric regarding people just because they are not like you.
take my post whichever way you will....
P.s NEWBIE and DARN proud of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank you, Ruby Vee, somehow I overlooked that one.
Let's discuss this.
"Spouting", indicates the expulsion of an emotionally based statement without consideration for either the meaning of the statement itself, or the full ramifications, if the statement is held to be true.
"Hateful", indicates the summary dismissal of the worth of another, or their argument, simply because they are different, in context, and as noted.
"Rhetoric", as they unfortunately no longer teach students in college, is the science of forming, validating, and defending an argument. It has come to be taken to mean incomprehensible gibberish. The obviously missed fact, in that argument, being that it is incomprehensible because the listener is unable to comprehend the positor's argument, to develop their own argument, or to test their (unformulated) argument for validity- "TRUTH", for those that have difficulty following.
So, in context, we may examine my (and others) posts, using this standard. I submit that:
1) My posts have not been "spouting", I have considered both the needs of the patients, other care-givers, and the physcians, and would submit that some standard of perfomance is necessary, regardless of "feelings". I cannot say that I have seen any posts using racial/ethnic/gender-based/etc., slurs. On the contrary, we (stating that some unadulterated accents, occassioanlly our own, pose risk to safe care delivery)are being characterized as, "hateful", "racists", "intolerant", etc. Interestingly, this technique was most effectively used by the fascists and communists to do away with political dissidents- because neither fascists nor communists could develop reasoned social or political philosophies.
I am not calling anyone a communist or nazi, but I would call into question the political leanings of any educator who allowed their student(s) the intellectual laziness of this technique. It is easier to demonize than assess, analyze, refute and defend one's position.
2) My posts are not based on emotional reaction, but on practical, tangible difficulties, "hateful" is both inapprorpiate in description and inept in application.
3) "Rhetoric", yes, I do use rhetoric. I have read some Aristotle and Seneca, and they are my models in rhetoric. I commend them to all.Last edit by Rob72 on Sep 27, '11 - nursel56 likes this.
