Anti-intellectual & hyper-sensitive. WHY? - page 5

by mclennan

7,669 Visits | 65 Comments

I got in trouble at my job yesterday. I was training in a new case manager. After some time observing me make calls and document, she tried it on her own. She's smart, a great nurse and did a good job on her first call. But... Read More


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    Still don't see why the Op is so upset. I'm the type who loves to help people, but don't give a flip if they don't want me to help them. Many times, people want to figure the thing out themselves. And ya know what, they often do! They also will tend to run right up over you and succeed. And there you are sitting by yourself looking at your beautiful narratives, wondering if you should wallpaper your bedroom with them, or would that be too much awesomeness that you wouldn't be able to sleep?
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    I give the OP benefit of the doubt that s/he conveyed the redirection in the manner s/he reports they did. And I absolutely believe the rookie went berserk, lol. I, too, see that sort of thing in our culture all the time.

    And yes, there is a palpable anti-intellectual vibe here on AN. It is the biggest disappointment about this site and it's membership, and you would have to be stolid not to notice it. It is practically a capitol crime to tout education in these forums.
    Altra, monkeybug, psu_213, and 5 others like this.
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    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    I give the OP benefit of the doubt that s/he conveyed the redirection in the manner s/he reports they did. And I absolutely believe the rookie went berserk, lol. I, too, see that sort of thing in our culture all the time.

    And yes, there is a palpable anti-intellectual vibe here on AN. It is the biggest disappointment about this site and it's membership, and you would have to be stolid not to notice it. It is practically a capitol crime to tout education in these forums.
    I wonder, when you tell people that they're not educated enough to do a job that they've been doing competently for years, how do you expect them to react? I would never disparage someone for continuing their education. I never have. But I've seen plenty of posts saying that the continued existence of LPN and ADNs constitutes an embarrassment to this profession. When people say things like this they aren't "touting education", they are being malicious and petty. Respectful debates about whether we should raise the level of entry to practice are one thing. Statements like "ADNs are a danger to pt care" or "LPNs are undereducated nurses who prevent us from being seen as professionals" are not part of a respectful debate. And I honestly can't recall comparably hurtful things being said against BSNs here....

    (note that I'm not implying BlueDevil said such things, I'm just speaking in general terms)
    NB19938, nursel56, and roser13 like this.
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    Quote from BrandonLPN
    Yes, it's not fair that when LPNs or ADNs say "I'm not an undereducated idiot who's a danger to my patients" we're branded as anti-education or an embarrassment to the profession. Most of the alleged "BSN bashing" is in the form of LPN/ADNs defending themselves when it's implied we don't have the right to exist.
    Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.
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    Quote from subee
    Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.
    I think we should get back on topic.
    leslie :-D, OCNRN63, AnonRNC, and 2 others like this.
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    One of the problems in nursing is that we are expected to be perfect... ever made a med error?? It is a horrible feeling... not only knowing that you could have (or maybe did) cause/d harm to a patient, but then to have to fill out a med error report for "training purposes" (after which NO training is EVER done). I know SO many nurses who say they haven't made a med error (btw... anyone who says they haven't is lying).

    Ever reached the end of "that" shift (you know, the one in which you never stopped moving, ran from room to room to room, dealt with "that" patient and their family all day, had one patient try to circle the drain on you... you all know what I'm talking about)... and had the oncoming nurse ask "so was XXXXX done"? And you realize that whatever it was hadn't been done. You beat yourself up about it for days, and you KNOW the other nurse has said to her co-workers "Can you believe she didn't xxxx"? Never mind the 99 things you did RIGHT that shift, never mind the fact that your patient DIDN'T go down the drain, because you stopped it from happening... you missed that ONE thing, so all of the other positive things... things you did right, are completely irrelevant... THAT is why some nurses "cannot stand one single tiny bit of criticism or hearing they are not perfect".

    Nurses are unbelievably judgmental toward each other. You'd think that since we all know what the others are going through we'd be a little more sympathetic... but nope. This mindset is seriously making me reconsider nursing as a career. I just have to figure out how on earth to escape...
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    Quote from subee
    Show me ONE post where anyone denied your right to exist...just one. I can show you plenty where LPN's bashed RN's. And it's really stupid to lash out at a group that's making you feel self-defensive. That's the other person's problem and retaliating only makes one appear too dim to make a rational come-back. People who bash another group don't deserve a response.
    I'm referring to posts where it has been said LPNs and (especially) ADNs should be phased out, citing the view that they degrade the profession and prevent nurses from being seen as professionals in the eyes of doctors, pharmacists, PT's, etc.

    If you've seen a lot of posts where LPNs degrade RNs, I'll take your word for it. I can say I've never bashed RNs. Or BSNs. All I've ever said is I long for a return to the "team nursing" model and that I feel nursing needs a multi tiered system to function efficiently. And I've said I feel ADNs are sufficiently trained to do the job they do.

    I don't really feel self defensive, because I don't feel like I have anything to be defensive about.
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    Quote from roser13
    I think we should get back on topic.
    Perhaps it's regrettable that the thread has largely focused on the age old ADN vs BSN vs LPN debate.

    As others have said, I was with the OP until that last line that suggested anyone who's not pro "BSN only" is anti education or anti-intellectual. I disagree. Just because someone feels ADN programs should continue to exist does not mean they are anti-intellectual.

    Now, I have seen posts where people suggest BSNs are not equipped to be nurses because of some sort of lack of clinical preparation or something. I've never said anything like that. What I have said is perhaps the BSN should result in a separate, higher form of licensure. I agree it makes little sense to have two very different educational pathways that lead to the exact same license and scope of practice....
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    Quote from BlueDevil,DNP
    And yes, there is a palpable anti-intellectual vibe here on AN. It is the biggest disappointment about this site and it's membership, and you would have to be stolid not to notice it. It is practically a capitol crime to tout education in these forums.
    *** In my opinion the anti-intellectual vibe you percieve here on AN is actually a defence reaction to the elitist attitude held by certain members. I can't remember any posts that criticized anyone for WANTING to further their education, or criticized anyone for encouraging othersto pursue further education. I do see defensive reaction to suggestions that nurses who don't hold BSNs are less than competent, or that they are holding the "profession" back, or when the lack of a BSN is misconstrued as being anti education.
    In my practice this attitude seems particularly ironic. In my roll as full time rapid response and resourse nurse one of my constant duties is to explain basic nursing concepts, answer basic and advanced nursing practice questions, and teach basic and advanced nursing skills to BSN and MSN prepared RNs.
    I am absolutly not anti educaton. I do reject the commonly held view that the traditional college / university based education is the only education that matters. An ADN prepared RN can devote a lot fo time and effort to becomeing highly educated in nursing practice but unless they have BSN behind their name they remain uneducated in the view of some people.
    nursel56 and BrandonLPN like this.
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    I think that if that is her reaction to your extremely kind way of trying to teach her then she should be left to flounder on her own and sink or swim. She burned you once so you know what to expect the next time. This is the grown up working world and people need to appreciate the time and effort people put into their training or manage it on their own.
    nursel56 and netglow like this.


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