"Dear Nurses: Please Forgive Me" : A Response

Nurses Relations

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This thread is not directed at any person in particular; it assumes the subject of the OP is a fictitious character. This is the response to the thread linked below, from a couple years ago which some of you may remember. It written from the opposite perspective -- the perspective of the innocent caregiver being abused by the example below.

https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/dear-nurses-please-789883.html

Dear adult child of dying patient,

You are not forgiven.

You say you know he's dying. You say you get it. You acknowledge that in spite of his inability to overcome his illness, and after all the attention and treatments he was given by his dutiful caregivers, he significantly exceeded all expectations you had of his remaining lifespan by three years. For reasons you don't know or fully understand, you have elected to be socially abusive and all but criminally assault the people trying to help him live. You have chosen to impact the lives of complete strangers in very hurtful, damaging ways.

You say you see the changes in his activity level and respiratory pattern, and you say you know exactly what those changes mean. You reinforce, over and over again, that you see it, and you know, and in in spite of you admitting that fact, over and over and over again, you continue to be rude, abusive, and cruel toward nurses, who to you are strangers struggling with their own lives, their own careers, their own families, their own finances, and perhaps their own dying parents. How dare you ask for forgiveness. You have no idea how much hurt you have caused.

You say your dysfunctional ways (your words) need to be understood; that you prefer to glare instead of cry, prefer to be a control freak instead of being helpless. What understanding do you think you deserve? Why should you be catered to? You have selfishly managed to make your father's dying process all about you, your needs, and your own inner turmoil and seething. You are extremely self-absorbed, and people like you are toxic. You have demanded that resources designed to make your father either healthier or more comfortable be diverted to placating your sick thinking. Interesting that you mention that you are guilt and fear laden. Could that be you don't love him and never have? You go on to mention that you were once laden with sociopathic tendencies. It shows.

It shows.

Forgive you please, your many sins? Get out of nursing. Get out of healthcare. Get out of this world.

(thoughts?)

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
We are currently dealing with my 2 y/o granddaughter having a stroke, brain surgery, etc.. We as a family have been rocked. We have never acted out of sorts, have always been extremely gracious and thankful. She has gotten superb care at a hospital where I used to work and am credentialed. We always behave appropriately, ask well thought out questions, are not intrusive and since I know several of the nurses and physicians that are caring for her, I know we as a family, we are considered "good."

I do feel there is a difference in the loss of a child over the loss of someone 80 years and I'm trying to be sensitive.

With either case, no matter the age of the pt, the families have an obligation to behave.

Trauma...I am SO SORRY!!!!((HUGS)) I am sending prayers.

I'm not saying that families don't have to behave. They do. I have the patience of Job. I shared my story of frustration at ONE facilities ineptness....a comedy of circumstances that did not end well. Trust me my sisters and I are professional but WILL advocate for what is best for our families.

I object to the use of someones personal heartbreaking story to make a "fictions letter"

What I object to!

Forgive you please, your many sins? Get out of nursing. Get out of healthcare. Get out of this world.
Get out of this world?

Sorry...takes it to a personal level...I can't agree.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Esme12, I'm also sorry for your loss. My beloved father died a year ago. Although I was numb with grief, I was surprised to notice that I could feel a stab through the heart when people asked how old he was and then said dismissively, "Oh, he had a good long life." I think we can all go a little crazy with the loss from a death and I hope my experience makes it easier for me to forgive when people have ugly manifestations of grief and pain. I know it's not easy and I'll probably fall short of my ideal. Still, when that happens, I hope I remember the shortcoming is mine.

Your comments about this subject are, in my opinion, spot on.

The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not "get over" the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will heal and you will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but, you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to."

~ Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and John Kessler

True words....

The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not "get over" the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will heal and you will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but, you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to."

~ Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and John Kessler

BIG HUGSI can promise you it gets easier and hurts less. Then there are those days it sneaks up on youand it is NOT OK.Then tomorrow comes and it's better.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I'm a nurse; I've been a patient. With five surgeries, radiation therapy and several hospital stays in the past two years, I know what it's like to be a patient. I've been the daughter of a patient, the wife of a patient and the best friend of a patient as well. So please don't tell me that I "don't understand what it's like" or "don't know where the family is coming from" or "can't understand how lost and alone they feel." I've been there, done that, and I get it. But believe me when I say that there is no excuse to mistreat the nurse who is trying to help your family member. None. You're making it all about you and your pain rather than all about the family member who is sick or dying. Your pain, your fear, your helplessness. Your pain and fear are legitimate, but your need to punish someone else because you feel badly is not.

Not for one moment would you expect your dear family member to put up with the sort of garbage you regularly dish out to the nursing staff if we came to his or her place of work. Not for one moment would YOU expect to put up with the same sort of selfishness, rudeness or entitled behavior in YOUR place of work. So why do you think it's acceptable to lash out at the nurses?

I'm sorry I missed the original thread the first time around. I was busy having cancer treated.

Ruby we are very similar and have many of the same opinions. I make NO excuse for an irrational demanding family. However I don't think asking for and getting red jello is being abusive to the staff.

I have NEVER been unprofessional to staff nor abusive. Have a been a pain in their behind. Probably. Too bad. Do your job and we are fine. I know abusive families I have cared for their loved ones.

What leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Could that be you don't love him and never have? You go on to mention that you were once laden with sociopathic tendencies. It shows.

It shows.

Forgive you please, your many sins? Get out of nursing. Get out of healthcare. Get out of this world.

Really?...that's personal.

ps...I am really glad you are on the mend.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I don't think it's offensive. They made a decision to publish their letter (which by the way they addressed very broadly to "floor nurses, ICU nurses, ED nurses) as an article. It wasn't a personal journal entry. Also, a lot of "floor nurses, ICU nurses, ED nurses" might be offended by the OP of that thread basically telling other nurses what to do and how they need to be handled.

So it was personal and not a piece of creative writing.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. For me where you stepped over a line

Could that be you don't love him and never have? You go on to mention that you were once laden with sociopathic tendencies. It shows.

It shows.

Forgive you please, your many sins? Get out of nursing. Get out of healthcare. Get out of this world.

Seriously?
Get out of this world?
Get out of nursing?
You never loved him and you never have?
Not good.

I wonder what has happened recently, to you, that you dug up a 4 year old thread to respond to yesterday in such a disparaging manner?

Clearly something triggered you to seek this old personal story to comment on so strongly.

No nurse should put up with "abuse" but just because a family member is bothering you with stupid petty questions and requests doesn't mean you are being abused.

Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
As a nurse you need to understand how the family is feeling. Frightened, alone. confused. As a medical professional and a family you are burdened to make the right decisions. Whatever that may be. I am not one to be a pain in the behind but I WILL advocate for my family...no matter what. If you find that offensive...then so be it.

To respond to such a painful thread about someone heartfelt grief and pain with such disdain amazes and disappoints me.

Where are we going? Who are we? Why are we here if not for the common bond of compassion and forgiveness?

Thanks rant over.

We certainly aren't passing on Florence's legacy. :(

Esme, your first post about your dads struggles saddens me, and I hope you got some legal advice. I had the same issue with an alcoholic step father, who was not a very nice man to my mom, but SHE loved him, in her own sick way. So when he was admitted to the hospital with hyponatremia, and coded three days later because they had him on NO CIWA. I knew he was ignored because all people saw was an alcoholic, old man. He had been lost as a person to them. I fought tooth and nail for him, even though I had no respect for him as my mothers husband. However, he deserved proper care, yet it did no good.

I work with nurses that say "Oh this pt is a no code", so I don't have to A..B..or C. Or he is 90 years of age, so I don't have to A..B..or C.

Anyway, I wanted to say I have seen it, and I have experienced it, and it doesn't bode well for nursing or healthcare, or us when we are elderly.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
We certainly aren't passing on Florence's legacy. :(

Esme, your first post about your dads struggles saddens me, and I hope you got some legal advice. I had the same issue with an alcoholic step father, who was not a very nice man to my mom, but SHE loved him, in her own sick way. So when he was admitted to the hospital with hyponatremia, and coded three days later because they had him on NO CIWA. I knew he was ignored because all people saw was an alcoholic, old man. He had been lost as a person to them. I fought tooth and nail for him, even though I had no respect for him as my mothers husband. However, he deserved proper care, yet it did no good.

I work with nurses that say "Oh this pt is a no code", so I don't have to A..B..or C. Or he is 90 years of age, so I don't have to A..B..or C.

Anyway, I wanted to say I have seen it, and I have experienced it, and it doesn't bode well for nursing or healthcare, or us when we are elderly.

We did but "after all he was 80 years old" and "direct causative correlation could not be identified"...he was after all "80 years old".

The facility got some regulatory agencies that breathed down thier neck for a while...did it change anything? I highly doubt it.

No Good Ole Flo's philosophy isn't alive and well...sad really.

Specializes in Certified Med/Surg tele, and other stuff.
I agree with the OP in this thread. I also agree with Esme that we need to show compassion for family members and not be condescending.

I would never say a dying patient didn't belong in ICU to the family, that's inappropriate. I would never say, "Well, he is 80 years old;" I say, "I am sorry this is happening." Yes, there are nurses who have no tact, just like there are people in other professions who have no tact.

However, I am not one of those people with no tact, and even if I was, I still wouldn't deserve to be treated like a punching bag. I got a 80s-ish year old man up to my ICU recently. I admitted him, and was trying to do admission charting while the family members kept trying to look over my shoulder and snoop in everything I was doing. I suggested to them as nicely as I could manage while my skin was crawling and my brain was shrieking at me to get the heck out of the room - "You don't have to stand; you're welcome to sit down if you like." I am not claustrophobic usually, but in that moment I was.

I got pulled aside the next day by my manager; the family had complained about me.

Apparently, I was "throwing my weight around" and "trying to control them." I "forced them to sit" and "talked down to them like they were children." For the record, they had asked if someone needed to stay and I wanted to yell, "NO!!!!" with all of the volume I had because of how uncomfortable they were making me with their hovering and being right up in my personal space, but instead I told them we had a policy that one person was indeed allowed to spend the night, and that I would be happy to get sheets, blankets, and pillows for whichever family member wanted to stay. I am a person who needs my personal space. I don't even let my best friends stand so close to me that I can feel their breath on the back of my neck, but that's exactly what these perfect strangers were doing to me. They were also standing so that they were between me and the door. I literally felt trapped and like I had no escape route, and I still managed to be pleasant to them.

These families need to take responsibility for their own attitudes. I am still irate that I got complained about when I was nothing but polite, and offered a gentle suggestion to the family members that they sit down instead of telling them to back the **** off because they were giving me the creeps, which is what I wanted to say. Next time, I think I may just refuse to let family back into the room before I get my admission stuff done. I have been greatly soured by these nasty pieces of work. I understand that they were losing their father, and it was awful, but... when the family makes me dread going into the room, when my flight or fight response is telling me to never go back into the room again because I feel threatened, this is a problem, and the person who suffers the most is going to be the patient. These nightmare families need a reality check that their attitude is possibly going to cause their loved one harm. No nurse intends to neglect a patient, but if I know I'm going to get harassed when I walk in a room, the temptation to not walk in at all is really strong. Don't get me wrong, I'll still do my job - but I will do it in as few steps as possible and make sure I cluster my interventions as much as I possibly can so I can spend the bare minimum amount of time in the room. If these people really care about their loved ones, maybe they should learn not to threaten the people who can save their loved one's life.

I am obviously still bitter. This was the first complaint I've ever received, and I didn't even deserve it. I have never wished so bad that I had really told someone exactly what I thought about their behavior. If I was going to get pulled aside by my manager anyway, I wish I could have educated the family a bit on exactly how being hovered over made me feel. My coworkers might have benefitted from the family being made aware they were exhibiting threatening behavior. I'm quite sure that the family has no idea of how their actions are being perceived, and I'm sure they still are engaging in threatening behavior with everyone else. At least I have the benefit of not being allowed to care for this patient anymore. My coworkers are not so lucky.

My guess is, they perceived anger and annoyance in your tone or your body language. I understand feeling annoyed by families, but I always..always try to see it from their point of view. Many people have never been in a hospital before and don't always know how to "behave".

When I have challenging families, I'm actually in the room MORE. These people are deathly afraid of abandonment. If you give them what they want, more frequent checks or an explanation of when you will return (I need to check on another pt or pass meds, I will return in an hour) they usually calm down.

Yes, I have been cussed and yelled at, but I never take it to heart. Whatever...It's not about ME, it is about giving the patient the best of care.

Sounds odd, but these people are my favorite challenges and I usually can win them over because they sense that I truly care, and many have told me that.

Specializes in None yet..
It is YOUR JOB to be weary of theirs and holistically care for the patient while comforting the family to the best of yiur abiluty... Yes, nurses have feelings too, but you get paud to check them at the sliding doors and pick them back up when your sign off at the end of shift.

Well said, mrsboots!

I hope that within allnurses we can expand our circle of care to include the OP. She may have had some experiences that pushed her past her limits and she may need the same empathy and kindness for her that most of us would struggle to give to the families of the dying. I'm curious to know what experiences lie behind her posting. "Hurt people hurt people."

There is so much grief in the world that sometimes I feel afraid and overwhelmed. That's when I'm especially glad for the wisdom and care of allnurses and generous souls like Esme.

:nurse:

Specializes in None yet..
Sounds odd, but these people are my favorite challenges and I usually can win them over because they sense that I truly care, and many have told me that.

What an excellent attitude!

Gold medal for you, tokmom!

:up:

Part of the root of this seems to be the issue of how much exemption from the standards of accepted social behavior do we give?

How much license does grieving give a family to act any way they want?

From what I experience, nurses are a tolerant bunch. I work in trauma where the bad news is totally unexpected.

Specializes in Critical Care, Float Pool Nursing.
So you did mean it personal.

You know what...yes I would. I have behaved that way on the street. I once saw a woman back slap her toddler in a restaurant...hard....you're darn tooting I intervened. I just happen to be one of those people who would do something on that show....What would you do?...while others sat around watching. I don't watch...I DO something. I make a difference. I once got escorted out of a mall beasue I loudly announced that a particular pet store had sick puppies. They were vomiting and eating the vomit in the cages. They couldn't open their eyes for the goop in them. Those poor puppies were ILL. Very ill. Others stood there and whispered. I made noise. The owner got arrested and put in jail....and that sickening shop...closed. I made a difference.

Recently my daughter has been diagnosed with a thyroglossal duct cyst. She had had a painful lump in her throat for a little over a year. I was blown off by her pedi office and the Nurse practitioner who saw her regularly as being "one of those protective nurse Mom's and I need to stop thinging that something is wrong...after all it's just swollen glands" Really??? Well...it took a MD 30 seconds to diagnose her. You bettcha I let that pediatrician know of his staff's mistake or incompetence...take your pick.

While there are crazy families out there that can't be reasoned with... I don't see how a little compassion to their fear and their attempts at controlling a situation that is out of control. It isn't personal. I see how they can feel lost frightened and angry. They can't be made at God...well...just because they can't ...for maybe he won't her their prayers if they make God angry. They can't be mad at the MD becasue well...he's God and if they make the doctor mad maybe he won't make their loved one better. Who can they get mad at...the one person who makes it safe for he/she won't judge and will still help my loved one...because that is what they do. The nurse. I don't take it personal. I try to see how I can make them feel safe so I can help them change their behavior.

You aren't just treating the patient you are treating the whole family. Families feel helpless they need to feel they are doing SOMETHING...ANY THING...to help thier loved one.

Compassion. Empathy. Caring. Tolerance. That is also the function of a nurse. It isn't all about you..it's but the patient. Plain and simple.

I am NOT a martyr. TRUST me I am not a doormat. I have NO PROBLEM telling someone where to get off the train. But you start telling people to I put my foot down.

This post is a jumbled gaggle of contradictions, all over the place. In one passage you've essentially rationalized why it's acceptable to be mad at nurses instead of MDs and god, while suggesting nurses shouldn't be doormats and martyrs. You also bring up countless unrelated personal experiences in every post in order to center the discussion around yourself. Your examples of behaving aggressively on streets have no bearing to our discussion when you're talking about toddlers being smacked. Overidentify a lot? You're dealing with issues; we get it. Why recant them here? Internet forums are not therapeutic venues. Having a lot of strangers give you cyber hugs for your stories will make you feel better today but they won't help in the long run.

I read the original thread, and the poster did indeed describe a family member who was abusive to the nursing staff. No matter how much you love your family member, losing them is not a license to abuse others. Nor is disagreeing with someone a good reason to shame the poster about going into nursing or state that you don't want your older relatives in her or his care. You don't know anything about the skill or competence of the original poster.

Ruby, the nurse's behavior was not abusive to the staff, unless you consider asking for red jello to be abusive. What abuse are you seeing? Please state the behaviors.

Regardless of the skill or competence of the OP, I would not wish for someone who has displayed such a callous attitude to take care of a family member of mine.

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