Rude or Reportable? I'd like others opinions...

[Irish_Libra]

Okay I'm going to give a situation and ask your opinion on what you think: just rude or is it reportable (to state board of nursing). I'd also like to know if you feel it is reportable what steps should be taken next.

Here's the situation. I have been a LPN for over 10yrs, and for the last 6+yrs I've been at the same company. The company I work for has a contract with a long-term facility. I have been going to this facility to care for patients for my entire employment. Recently they've had a restructuring of their nursing administration. One morning as I prepared to see my first patient, a staff member (non-nursing) approached me about filling out skin assessment sheets everyday I visit. I explained to her that we typically do this 1 day a week & prn. I also informed her we verbally reported to the staff nurses any conditions/concerns regarding the patient. She told me I was going to get their facility in trouble with state, & I calmly stated I disagreed.

Moments later I was informed thru the floor nurse on that unit that the DON wanted me to gather my things, go home, & call my supervisor. His reason: he said I refused to do the paperwork. I felt this was just a misunderstanding & that I didn't refuse at all, I was just doing it as had been done for the last 6yrs & we've never had a problem before with findings/follow-ups in skin conditions/concerns.

After knocking, I attempted to explain that I felt their was a misunderstanding & I just wanted to clarify it, but he cut me off yelling at me, cursing, and demanding I leave NOW! Stunned, I just stated "OK" and left the building angry, frustrated, confused, & crying.

The same staff member that initially approached me was in his office, as well as other staff nurses present not 5 feet from his door at the nursing station. There were also residents in the hallway 7-10 feet from his doorway that all heard this exchange.

Due to "changes" in the facility, the nurses/staff that overheard are afraid to come forward at fear of losing their jobs. Even then, the owner of this particular facility has fired a staff member with similar tactics so I feel to report to him will not yield any results. And this DON has yelled/fired staff since then in the presence of staff, residents, & residents families.

I know what he did was unprofessional, but my question is this: IS THIS REPORTABLE TO THE STATE BOARD OF NURSING? & WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF IT WERE YOU IN THIS SITUATION?

BTW: My company supports me in saying this facility as been viewed negatively lately & is undergoing alot of stress. I feel that regardless, a certain level of professionalism is required. Afterwards, the DON will not permit me back into the building (not that I'd want to work with him, although I miss my residents terribly) & he was overheard saying he didn't like me & just wanted to get rid of me. Oh, I don't know his last name...

[Ms.RN]

every residents are scheduled to take their showers two times a week. whever patient takes their shower is the day that nurses have to do a skin assessment and we have to fill out a whole body assessment sheet. i'm sure thats what that non nursing staff is referrring to. at some facilities nurses have to do skin assesment once a day on their shower day. it depends on the policy of the facility. but i dont know who that person is wheter she is an aide or dietician or social worker have no right to tell you what to do. dont you guys have a unit manager at your place?? it is unit managers job to make sure nurses are doing their work and if they are not doing job like signing their mar or tar or skin assessments or whatever they arsuppose to let nurses know that they need to do it. and that don cannot fire you becuase you told that non staff what you thought about waht you are suppose to do. she have to clarify your job duties but telling to pack your thing and leave the building, that is very harsh. you can talk to an administrator who is above don or talk to a corporate about this and complain.

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

The DON sounds like a jerk, but you can't report someone to the BON for that. And frankly I find it a little odd that you would think that his treatment of you is a reportable offense. But are you trying to say that his behavior creates an emotionally unhealthy patient enviornment?

[morte, LPN, LVN]

i think the OP's point is that she was publicly cursed.....totally unprofessional......and yes, i might be tempted to report....is this an indication of a mental health issue? then the board would certainly be interested......since this was done in front of patients......adm. should also be interested....if this is a corp owned place, corp should be interested

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Rude and inappropriate - yes

Reportable - no

[KateRN1]

Probably not reportable to the BoN, but certainly reportable to higher ups, such as the facility administrator, board of directors, corporate management, what-have-you.

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I would have been hurt, angry and humiliated, but this is not a reportable offense. I have seen so many ridiculous changes, but they are not worth arguing about. I would have worded it this way "Is this a change from our primary pracrtice of doing skin assessments once a week? Oh, okay...how do you want me to do them?" and cussed under my breath as I walk away. Believe it or not, there are many managerial changes that come down from the state and other regulatory agencies that we peons have no clue about. They just come and say "Do this, now". A respectable person would say why this practice has changed, but, it gets so overwhelming that there is no time.

I believe their behavior was horrible, for sure. But, they can hurt you more than you can hurt them, believe me. Your agency supports you, they will hopefully assign you to a better place and that is what really counts.

[Irish_Libra]

Just to clarify I do not work for this facility. I am a hospice pt caregiver. I do pt care which also includes skin assessments, pain assessments, assess side effects of medications, & assess if there are any other needs the pt has (adaptive devices etc). I have been coming to this facility for 6+yrs. This DON has been there roughly 1yr. As for the non-nursing staff, it was the central supply person! This facility gives residents showers 1x week & does skin assessments 1x week. I do skin assessments 3x week (each day I visit a patient). I do the stna shower sheet for them on one day unless there is a change one of the other days. The problem was this DON wanted us to do further staff paperwork (signing off their books). My last supervisor had this discussion with him & told him we do our own paperwork, & verbally report to the staff nurses at the facility & we were not doing their paperwork just because their staff nurses weren't doing it. (facility got sited in last survey for nrsg not documenting). My new supervisor hadn't addressed the issue since it wasn't revisited prior to his outburst.

As far as reportable I'm concerned with his inability to control his response in front of residents. What if next time someone doesn't respond so calmly to him & he takes the next step from verbal to physical. I can see the potential in him. Is that a safe environment for the residents if staff is verbally/physically assaulting one another? Even verbal altercations lead to unsafe nursing. I for one know if I had been working as a charge nurse that day, there was NO WAY I could of continued working without risking the safety of the residents because I was too upset & at the very least my mind would of been elsewhere. Thats one way med errors occur among other safety issues.

As for the person that said something about me being fired, no I wasn't. I am still working with the same company, just had my annual review & was noted by my supervisor for being able to act/respond professionally when confronted with very difficult situations.

And to those that seemed to have an attitude that: this happened, so what? move on..... I don't know about you but I have had nightmare situations & was able to walk in to my pts with a smile & walk out with a smile. I have worked as a pt care staff, a charge nurse, & even as a supervisor in a LTC setting. NEVER is it ok to yell/curse at a staff member let alone someone else unless you see them endangering your residents. Also this facility gets paid by my company for the residents residing there. So it wasn't about cutting costs.

[wondern, ASN]

Rude. Very rude. Did you get the f bomb thrown at you?

Be glad you don't have to go there with someone who loses it like that!

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Until there is an actual situation there is nothing to report, Irish Libra. That someone might blow up is not reportable.

[NursieGirl199]

Irish, the exact same thing happened to me too.

I miss my residents and had bonded with them.

Good luck going back to work. I know you are an excellent professional and will find a better place to work. Where I use to work something like that happened and it seemed set up to me when it happened because they were doing away with agency nurses now due to the economy. They informed us nurses we had to work overtime if needed, to fill in. I heard the DON say myself that agency nurses were tooo expensive and they were done using them. Then, recently, when census fell tremendously and not replaced a few nurses - in house went as well. Yes, me being one of them. Since I have been gone 2 wks two more residents have passed. You will find something so much better and consider this a growing experience ! You will have learned from this and we move on... I sure hope we find jobs! LOL

Good luck to you Irish !

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

I understand your points; the issue we are discussing is that the behavior, as bad as it was, is not reportable to the BON. And, they can turn it around and say that you did not listen to direct orders. I am not saying that I agree with this behavior...it was unprofessional for sure...but hate to say, the BON would probably feel that they have bigger fish to fry. And, I would hate for you to have them tell you this...it would infuriate you even further than you are already.