Neuro ICU - Do you talk to brain-dead patients?

It is a very confusing issue.

At what point is there no return. At which point is there no hope?? Sometimes this is very unclear.

My parents were asked if they wanted to donate my organs when I died (which they assumed would happen--the funeral was put on hold for me).

My parents attitude was "you dont know our daughter. She has a strong will and we will give her more time".

Well, here I am. Despite all. I did have a NDE in which I was given a choice to return.

What has scared me is that I wonder if I had had an organ donation card would I be alive today. Would they have tried everything or would I have been "worth" more dead??

There were some hospital personel who were deceptive with the organ donation issue telling my parents that my husband had agreed to organ donation (on another family member--he had not).

To be an organ donor the patient has to neet certain specific criteria and bleieve me there is no coming back it the patient meets these. Usually the patient also shows other signs such as loss of temperature control, alteration in vital signs and a steady pulse rate that is unvarying etc.

I'm about to begin a Masters research project about ICU nurses talking to brain-dead patients (oh the joys of ethics approval committees!).

Brain dead is DEAD. Period.

I am confused as to why a brain dead patient would even be in an ICU, unless it was just long enough to allow their family to come to grips with their status, make a decision about organ donation, and let go. Yes, those families might find it comforting to "talk to" that loved one, and say their final good-byes, but--why would health care professionals do so? Pray for their souls; yes, please do, but dead people do not hear!

There is a huge difference between talking to a patient in coma or chronic vegetative state than talking to one that is brain-dead. Those people have a chance to "come back," and no one knows what or even if they hear-- but we hope they do, and hope that talking to them will stimulate them and help them "come back" if there is the slimmest chance to do so.

To be brain dead, an EEG has confirmed that there is no longer any electrical activity in the brain. As others have stated, the EEG can be waived--there is other diagnostic criteria, especially in the case of anoxic brain injuries. I know that sometimes just disconnecting from a ventilator for a specified time, to see if any spontaneous breathing will occur in that time, is used. In those cases, an EEG would not tell anyone anything that they do not already know.

However, often organ transplant programs require the EEG to definitively confirm brain death, probably for legal reasons. Also, that EEG report makes it a bit easier for the families to accept that, yes, this loved one REALLY IS DEAD--there will be no coming back. It's at that point that they allow themselves to let go.

The brain controls the autonomic nervous system. If a brain dead person is disconnected from a ventilator, the heart will also stop. All that was keeping that person "alive", or more accurately, his organs perfused, was that ventilator.

there are some of those who continue to talk with the dead; it's a matter of their faith and belief. some believe in absolute nothingness whereas others don't. there's absolutely nothing wrong with talking w/the brain dead.

Actually Earle, an EEG is NOT a must before removing support. Perhaps in your facility it is, but not in mine.

As Gwenith stated, we're not interested in cortical function. And actually...what's needed to prove brain death is any three of the possible brain death criteria tests. For example, cold calorics, apnea testing, dolls eyes, absence of protective reflexes, blood flow studies, etc.