Questions on Mechanical Ventilators - page 7
Hello:) I need help with answering the questions for my vent training certification. I'll appreciate any help you can give. Please if you know of any websites that can help a newbie, pls send it... Read More
Jan 12, '11You have an interesting way of twisting things to make nurses feel like they have to prove themselves. I don't buy into manipulation, and I stand by what I said in my previous post.
Jan 12, '11Quote from NeoPediRNYou attacked me when I pointed out that the nursing textbooks did not provide detailed ventilator information. If there is one that does which you know about, please post it.You have an interesting way of twisting things to make nurses feel like they have to prove themselves. I don't buy into manipulation, and I stand by what I said in my previous post.
Maybe I should take it as a compliment that you think I am a doctor or "like a doctor". However, I still stand by the fact that RNs who work with ventilators should know as much as they can about them and that is is not beyond their educational abilities. I really do not want nurses and their patients to become a headline:
U.K. nurse shuts off ventilator
New Jersey Squad Accused of Improperly Applying a Ventilator
You might also take note of JCAHO's sentinel event alert on ventilator safety.
If you have information that contradicts my points on providing more information or patient safety, please post it.
Jan 12, '11Fundamentals of Mechanical Ventilation: A Short Course on the Theory and Application of Mechanical Ventilators, by Robert L. Chatburn.
AACN Advanced Critical Care by Mary Tracy, RN has an excellent section on vents
Jan 12, '11Quote from NeoPediRNAre these standard in all the in your area? Is the ventilator class a whole semester and what term? Is it along with a critical care clinical? Please post or PM me a link to these programs. I would like to see how they are set up. Very, very few new grad RNs have this knowledge straight out of a nursing program so it would be interesting to see how your school is set up. We've also been trying to get a basic ventilator course together for transport nurses on flight and CCT teams but that also comes with a big responsibility for covering the right material for the experience, education and application. Some employers sometimes assume too much and then their employees (and patients) end up paying the price.Fundamentals of Mechanical Ventilation: A Short Course on the Theory and Application of Mechanical Ventilators, by Robert L. Chatburn.
AACN Advanced Critical Care by Mary Tracy, RN has an excellent section on vents
You didn't put Robert L. Chatburn's credentials with his name but he is a Respiratory Therapist and not a nurse. His book is an excellent introduction to ventilators. However, it is still good to learn about the terminology and how each mode functions with the ventilator you are using. You will also notice in Chatburn's introduction he states:
"You can kill or injure somebody with a ventilator just as fast as you can with a car."
AACN Advanced Critical Care with Karen Carlson RN as the Editor and Mary Fran Tracy along with many other contributors does provides a good overview.
The AACN Advanced Critical Care journal, Mary Fran Tracy, RN Editor in Chief, is also an excellent source of critical care information.
Jun 19, '11Glad I missed on the previous hoopla.
For some reason, today, I received an email that there was a new post in this thread, but i missed all these in January. The post had this in the reply to my email:
"Includes Trach and other Pulmonary Education. 4 hour class with Certificate and Continuing Education hours"
Yet i see no reference to this in this thread--i assume it was deleted by an admistrator.
In regard to GreyGull..........
He is undoubtedly very knowledgeable on the subject matter.
He brings up many good points, both specific and general (see what this nurse did, see what this transport team did, etc), in regard to ventilator management and patient safety.
I do share his concern, but perhaps not his method of instruction. First, it is important to acknowledge that most non-RTs do not possess the knowledge of RTs--they do go thru a rigorous training program, board certification licensure (or whatever you want to call it), and then have many hours of training specific to this subject matter usually first in a controlled or supervised/peer setting.
It is very unlikely many nurses possess his depth of knowledge on the subject matter--for that matter, i doubt many new grad RTs do either.
In my opinion there does need to be some sort of specific training and/or 'universal'ization to address the matter as much as possible.
For instance, a given transport team and home nursing agency should limit themselves to SPECIFIC ventilator models as much as possible, and all involved personnel should be trained as much as possible, with hands-on scenarios, with 100% competency, on each model prior to usage whenever feasible. This should be done with some regularity, perhaps every 6months as to ensure patient safety. Alternatively there could be some sort of emergency on-call RT that could be at the scene or some sort of videoconferencing technology wherein the RT could give specific on-site (or virtual) assistance/instruction.
My insight on the solution is limited, and there may be better alternatives.
But in regard to GreyGulls method or approach--i think it could be refined. In order for proper change to occur with the least resistance, a more subtle/refined approach may be more helpful and get more change actually done.
Really our basic psychology does not change much. Their is a science to maximize the effect of change. He does not understand this concept, IMO, as his actions do not demonstrate it. There are textbooks and college courses and perhaps even inservices on the subject matter.
It is not my responsibility to find the necessary resource for him. A college professor teaching the subject would be in a better position to make recommendations than myself.
By gaining a deeper understanding on how ppl make decisions and the process of effective change, he could be much more instrumental in addressing patient safety and providing a deeper sense of self-fulfillment.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong. I am not a 'change manager'/professional, nor a psychologist, and my egotistic POV could be misleading.
It is just something i perceive--an uninformed opinion.
Here I see somebody with a substantial knowledge-base, who is aware of the myriad of problems that have and can occur in ventilator management by non-RT staff, and based on his education is in a position to do something about it.
And yet we find him in this forum, expressing himself in a way that seems limiting to his potential at communicating with the very ppl that may be making some of those clinical application 'shortcomings'.
All i am saying is that there may be a better way...........
well, i am outa here.
Jun 19, '11or whatever IT is. gender is meaningless on intellectual matters. Unfortunately i dont know a gender-neutral pronoun and i am lazy s/he
furthermore, the writing style is more aggressive/forward than not, and my experience has been that this is a masculine trait moreoften than not.
but to put it bluntly, i dont give a hoot whether IT is male or female.
and who should?
call me a man, if you want?
or a woman?
i dont care.
call me an idiot and you and i will have a problem......
screw gender issues.
and hope they screw each other too.
Jun 19, '11I don't deny that the person in question has been rather aggressive with certain posts; however, responding with continued aggressiveness will rarely help matters.
Jun 19, '11I did not reply to greygull aggressively--not sure what you are referring to.
as for gender, it really is meaningless.
it does not matter if greygull is male or female--the information is informative. I dont care whether greygull is male or female by any stretch of any imagination.
i am extremely puzzled as to why the detail would matter to you or greygull.
simply correct me if greygull is a she.
I apologize, greygull--I did not mean to call you a 'he'.
If the English language would produce a non-gender pronoun that is acceptable for human reference, that would be a good thing--I wouldnt have to comment on the non-issue.
I believe the Asians have such a feature in their language--lucky them.
I hope we can move on in regard to this gender issue, for gender sake.
I tried to add some humour to the post--gender should screw gender.
If this is construed as aggressive, so be it.
Jun 19, '11It is not a big deal, I didn't know if you had information that I was lacking. If that was the case, I would start referring to Grey Gull as male. I partially agree with you; however, I would not say that Grey Gull came out and called nurses stupid. There is truth to what Grey Gull is saying regarding a general lack of knowledge pertaining to ventilator management and the fact that ventilator management is full of peril. I will admit, my understanding of this subject was quite limited before I went to respiratory school and in fact, it is still limited in some areas.
Forgive me for taking the "screw" comment out of context. Typically, I find things go down hill when we start throwing around words such as "screw."
Jun 19, '11I reviewed my post.
I do not see where i said greygull said nurses were stupid.
perhaps you were referring to somebody else.
greygull has private messaged me in the past and has been extremely helpful, providing several resources.
I was complementary and would never think greygull is stupid, but quite the contrary.
When it comes to ventilator information, it would be more accurate to say 'nurses' are stupid as compared to an RT with the same years of experience. Therefore, it would be most illogical for me to insinuate such a thing since i am inclined to believe the beforementioned sentence. I would rather an RT manage my ventilator in transit or in the home setting than a nurse, emt, or paramedic.