Originally Posted by kmchugh

Should a large breasted female nurse be forced to wear a t-shirt under scrubs so she doesn't flash those things at patients when she bends over?

Not that exact scenario, but a more similar--and a more common one--was addressed in the thread in which several nurses wanted to go back to wearing all white.

I still cannot forget the female coworker who wore a thong with see-through whites. She was proud of her butt and was basically "flashing" everyone, then bragged about it.

I don't think the workplace was the place to do that. JMHO.

I'm not sure if the DON addressed that one, but another coworker complained to me that she'd been "spoken to" about wearing her Tweety unders with her white pants. *At least they were full-cut.*

Originally Posted by 3rdShiftGuy

Mike, I'm not a total prude. Gay, str8, male and female we all cut up and joke around. I wouldn't want to work in an environment were people are afraid to kid around with one another.

In fact we were cutting up the other other night at work when I was trying to make the assignment on and I started dancing, which illicited comments "I love you're butt, and I'm so jealous I don't have a butt like yours. Yeah shake that thang." (I'm 45 and that I'm still getting comments on my butt is funny). The context was pure fun and I wouldn't for minute think otherwise.

However, if body contact was made by either male or female getting a handful, then I would object. Today, I'm older and wiser and while I probably wouldn't file a sexual harrasment suit, I would at least stand up for myself and let her know it's not appropriate to touch the goodies.

To answer your question, I let it slide by the female and I would more than likely have let it slide had it been a man, gay or str8. Back then I was a newbie nurse, shy and didn't know how to speak up for myself.

Yeah, a lot of times the difference between fun and harassment is familiarity. Old friends can get away with stuff new aquaintances shouldn't try. And I tend to agree, inappropriate touching is always inappropriate. If I wouldn't feel comfortable grabbing your butt, you probably shouldn't grab mine, either. Didn't mean at all to suggest you were being a prude--I'm sorry you were subjected to that, but I'm glad you seem to have it in perspective.
I'm still a student, so I have a lot of the lessons of a newbie nurse ahead of me, but I do notice I'm a lot better at speaking up for myself after 40 than I was when I was younger. You live, you learn.

A bit off topic, but one of the things I've found I enjoy about health care is the diversity of my co-workers. As a carpenter, I was in a pretty homogenous environment. In a hospital, you see life in all its madness, and patients to boot. Well, you can't boot the patients, even when they deserve it. But, still...

Originally Posted by kmchugh

I have to get ready for work, and so will make this short.


Absolutely correct on all counts. I have not missed the fact that there have been a lot of female nurses on this board who have taken a stance in defense of their male counterparts. If that were the case, this would be a thread attacking female nurses for "allowing this," and that was not at all my intent. In fact, I think the majority of nurses, both male and female, tend to defend one another, and don't sweat the small stuff (which most of this is.)

Also, I did not intend this to be a thread where I was just venting, nor did I intend this to be a males only thread. I'm glad for participation from all comers.

The initial question I asked was why we (men in nursing) tolerate this. I believe that females, across the board, not just in nursing, have become quite good at recognizing when good natured fun crosses the line and becomes demeaning or degrading (a lot more experience is my theory). The question is why? Why are males so much more patient in tolerating behavior that skirts, and even crosses the line?

And to a degree, I still think there is a double standard. The chest hair thread proves it. Many of you (Tweety included) said they didn't see the thread as all that big a deal (and neither do I), but no one has even tried to respond to my hypothetical thread in which the tables are turned. Should a large breasted female nurse be forced to wear a t-shirt under scrubs so she doesn't flash those things at patients when she bends over? And if that thread is OK, is it OK for me to come in and say I don't want her wearing a t-shirt, I want a chance to get a peek? And to further state that if that occurs, I might just forget about the "nurse-patient" relationship? If that were to have been how events unfolded, would you all still be saying that it isn't a big deal?

Really, in the end, this thread was meant as not much more than food for thought, and maybe as fodder for discussion for all of us. I'm glad it has provided that. (So much for keeping it short.)

Kevin McHugh

I respect your question, Kev. I hear you.

I often wonder why we, male and female in nursing, tolerate a LOT of things, like abusive physicians, poor working conditions, unsafe patient-nurse ratios, and failure to advocate for our patients by colleagues----as well as many other things--- it goes on and on. Why is it, nursing tolerates so much when we as a group could be powerful enough to effect SO MUCH POSITIVE CHANGE? Why is it, we bicker among ourselves about things that are not make-or-break to our profession, yet leave things that are "broken" unfixed???????

Very well put.

Truthfully, I'm not offended by either of these two issues.

What does offend me is this: I am NOT a male nurse... I'm a NURSE. Plain, simple and to the point. We don't talk about women as "that female nurse", why am I called a male nurse?

When people call me a "Male nurse", I just politley correct them and tell them nicely that I am a "Registered Nurse". I have no problem being called a nurse, just don't qualify it with the term "Male". I went through the same classes the females did and took the same NCLEX. I earned the title.

Originally Posted by ADONLTC

What does offend me is this: I am NOT a male nurse... I'm a NURSE. Plain, simple and to the point. We don't talk about women as "that female nurse", why am I called a male nurse?

Perhaps for the same reason that this is The Male Nursing Forum, yet, there is no "Female Nursing Forum"????????????????????

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

Perhaps for the same reason that this is The Male Nursing Forum, yet, there is no "Female Nursing Forum"????????????????????

The forum

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

Perhaps for the same reason that this is The Male Nursing Forum, yet, there is no "Female Nursing Forum"????????????????????

For a long time men were not accepted as nurses (even though nursing at one time was only a male profession). Being a male in the nursing profession today does present challenges. I see the need for a forum on "Issues for men in nurisng" but not "The Male Nursing Forum"

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes

Why is it, we bicker among ourselves about things that are not make-or-break to our profession, yet leave things that are "broken" unfixed???????

Do we major in minors, because that is all we can effect change in as nurses? After all, we have little power or control to make 'big' changes, as we are not the big' players.

Is the sniping and bickering a desperate attempt by a powerless group to try to control SOMETHING, if only each other?

I've often wondered the same thing Deb. We would have SOOO much power...IF we would only stick together.