Originally Posted by kmchugh

You know, sometimes things have a hidden context. Sometimes, that context can be kind of ugly.

No one even poked fun at the notion that we didn’t have anything better to do than leer at this (or any) woman’s “private parts.” In fact, I felt the tone of most responses was almost apologetic. Why is that, I wonder? After all, didn’t the post attack our professionalism as nurses? Didn’t the OP suggest that we are nothing more than sexual beings, with no ability to control our baser instincts? Why did we tolerate this?

Consider what might have happened to both of these threads if they were put up about female, rather than male nurses.

Actually Kevin, you are incorrect on this. If you look, you will note that I did give a pithy but honest answer to the OP, that she considered sarcastic. And it was most certainly not apologetic.

And female nurses routinely put up with inappropriate comments on their alleged undue witchiness on this BB. If there is a thread regarding "nurses eating young", "mean coworkers gossiping", "why the poor pay rates", frequently the female witchiness factor comes up. And those threads are not pulled.

Witness Dr. Pill, uhhh Phil, and his episode with "Nurses just work until they can marry an MD, and never work again...even if it means stealing him".

Females get knocked on, too.

It upsets me when women get upset about men flirting with them but it's ok for them to do rude, sexually harassing type things to men.

It only plays on the stereotype that all men always want sex all the time.

I'm thinking of a male coworker here who was definitely harassed sexually who was always told it was "all in fun."

True, women are usually the victims, not the perps. But still, women can and do victimize men. The strange thing is that most would deny that they were doing or saying offensive things because they had no intention of forcing themselves on the man physically.

But it doesn't work like that. Unwelcome advances are unwelcome advances to the victim, and just having fun to the perpetrator.

We need to stop and think about what we say and how we behave.

Originally Posted by caroladybelle

Actually Kevin, you are incorrect on this. If you look, you will note that I did give a pithy but honest answer to the OP, that she considered sarcastic. And it was most certainly not apologetic.

And female nurses routinely put up with inappropriate comments on their alleged undue witchiness on this BB. If there is a thread regarding "nurses eating young", "mean coworkers gossiping", "why the poor pay rates", frequently the female witchiness factor comes up. And those threads are not pulled.

Witness Dr. Pill, uhhh Phil, and his episode with "Nurses just work until they can marry an MD, and never work again...even if it means stealing him".

Females get knocked on, too.

Thank you. And even when I tried to say I did not think nursing is in the state it is due to being primarily female, I was eaten alive by both male and female posters on the boards. I am frankly very tired of hearing how nursing is "in the stone age" or perceived "weak" due to the female factor. I tire of hearing how women are why nursing eats its young, etc. When I try to point out the same sort of things happen in testosterone-loaded careers like the military, I am either dismissed or told I am mistaken.

So you see, it goes both ways. I wish in the year 2005, we can get past gender issues. Just look. Now there is a thread about whether patients should get to choose to refuse LPN/CNA care in favor of RN only care and someone turned it into a gender issue fast as you can say "sexual harassment". I can't get why we can't move past it, myself. That we even have to have these discussions really blows me away.

Anyone who knows me here, knows I am a HUGE supporter of men in nursing. I am sorry other women seem not to be. Sometimes, we can be our own worst enemy as nurses, male or female. All we can do is correct stereotyping and be sensitive when issues do come up. I am sorry if I came across as blowing off your concerns earlier in my prior post. I can see what you mean. But it's not just men taking a bad rap, as you know.

I didn't see the hairy chest thread, but I did see the one that was closed about sexuality and female pts. I wasn't as offended as some. I'm finishing up my Maternity course, this week, so I've been confronting the issue a good bit, lately. Not in the sense of getting all hot and bothered, but the general awkwardness. I can be surprisingly bold with women my age and older, but I get pretty tongue-tied with young women of child-bearing age. (My next class is pediatrics, and I dearly hope I won't be looking at any vaginas, there.)

Anyway, I think that OP had a reasonable question, even if it was badly put. How do we "turn off" our sexuality. The answer is pretty obvious to you experienced nurses: professionalism, just like our female peers. To this student, I'm usually thinking, "Oh, Lord, please don't let me screw up." I recently got to do my first IM injections, and I was way too busy locating injection sites and remembering to aspirate to admire tushies. Driving home, afterward, it struck me as funny that I was a little giddy over getting to "do something" and not really a bit aroused, sexually. Of course, I'm not a kid, anymore, but I think my younger classmates aren't that different. To make a long story short, I've decided that nursing is way too intimate to be sexy.

I won't comment a lot on the hairy chests, since I didn't read it, but slightly off-color remarks are not at all uncommon at my job, and people are rarely offended. I've heard things that would make my Nurse Manager faint, and I have said things that would make my nurse manager faint. You get a feeling pretty quickly for who enjoys a flirty remark and who is offended, and you behave accordingly. I can't think of a single female co-worker who would object if I said her hair looked nice, but there are several to whom I would not say anything like, "Those are nice panties I'm seeing through your uniform." But I can think of several others who'd say, "I'm glad you like them."
(I have never actually said that to anyone, by the way.)
So, why do we tolerate this? Partly, I think it seems unmanly to complain, but more to the point, I don't think we are nearly as threatened. If a woman were to tell me, "Your chest hair is making me hot," it would never occur to me she might rape me in the parking lot, later. You don't hear much about women as sexual predators, and even if you did, they would have to pick on really small guys. If a woman gets angry with me, I'm really not concerned that she might beat me up, but if a man is angry with me, I'm at least aware of the potential for physical violence.

Awhile back, I was chastened rather roundly for an inappropriate comment on these boards, which I edited out. What I said wasn't so horrible, but it was in the wrong context--it was too familiar for the company of people I don't really know well. Female friends at work would have chuckled and nodded over the same comment, but relative strangers were offended, and had a right to be. In that sense, I suppose one has a right to be offended over the chest hair comment. Certainly, no one who was offended should be accused of lacking a sense of humor. I doubt that I would be offended, but I respect the right of anyone who was to say so. My guess is that more guys are annoyed because they can talk about our chests and we can't talk about theirs than are actually offended by the remark. Maybe, in the end, it's really nothing more complicated than that we enjoy being "sex objects".

No offense intended to anybody

P.S. I may have been mistaken when I said I wouldn't comment a lot.

Battle of the Sexes, been going on my entire career

As stated, this problem has been going on and on and on, for the entire length of my career, that is for thirty two years come June. It will never stop because males are males, and females are females. You know females are from Venus and males are from Mars. Sometimes I must say I enjoy it, the battle that is. Of course the times I enjoy it are mostly with my friends, (Male and Female) These are the times that the discussions are light and maybe even frivolous. We, my friends and I have fun with these gender based issues, but I'm sure we both gain insight into the heart of the issues we discuss, I know I do. It is when these issues become R-E-A-L in the workplace that I do not enjoy one moment of being stereo-typed, or flat out accused of any wrong doing. Comments such as, "He's just a male he wouldn't or couldn't understand our position." coming from females simply knocks me out. That statement assumes that all males are alike in every aspect of there lives, including but not limited to, gender relations with the opposite sex. It also assumes that we(males) are the horny toads, which flies in the face of my own personal experience. In my youth both as a male and as a nurse, it was more often than not that females, were piching my Butt, even grabbing my genitalia, thrusting there breasts in my face, and some of my bosses even went so far as to try to lure me to their homes for a little tryst, with the provision that if I didn't go there that they would cancel my assignment (I spent most of my career being an Agency Nurse) Just so you do not get the impression I'm crying here, I took advantage of many of those offers, both verbal and kinetic. Should I have repulsed all these offers of sexual delight? If I did I probably would have had to become a Monk. To give an example of my personality, when I met my wife, it took me six months to get up the nerve to ask her out on a date, in this day and age I believe that would have been covered under "If ya snooze, ya lose" In any case I am aware that many of us males, have had some of the same experiences. Being sixty and married happily is a very nice thing to be, because it allows me to be able to dismiss any accusations that have gender overtones, simply because I know in my heart that they are not true. You younger males will still have to deal with these issues awhile longer, but there is light at the end of the tunnel :Melody:

I really couldnt care less if a nurse is male or female as long as they know what they are doing, they care and they function well as part of a team.
We have all worked with lazy, uncaring nurses may they be male or female.
We have 2 male nurse on our ward and I think they are great but then I also think the rest of the staff is too

Heck, I live with and work around so many paramedics, mostly males...and gee, why is the whole male/female thing any different than in nursing when it comes to this! They get flack for this all the time, and I simply say...why?!?!?! We are all professionals...and to be frankly honest...how many 'lovely' things do we see vs people or 'things' that aren't at their best...come on! I simply don't think 'that' way....I am not in there to 'get a date' or 'get turned on'..I am there to work and help!

We all go clinical! We have a job to do and we do it...that plain and simple! I don't 'see' a 'private part' as much as I see something that must be treated or helped...and I see it attached to a human being! Even in cases where the person (male or female) can be considered attractive...heck doesn't matter, I don't see that part..not at all (and have been shocked when other nurses come up to me an say "lucky you..they are gorgeous" and I am like "oh...they are...I didn't notice because I was treating a PATIENT". (honestly..same with when paramedics come in...they may be quite pleasing on the eye, and I will be the totally last to notice because one, I am in clinical mode, two...not interested in this stuff at work...I reserve that for my off time, and NOT with co-workers or patients..ewwww, that is just to "work" for me..I separate work and home big time!!!!!! And gee...I love my hubby and he is all I look at that way! That is reserved for him alone! OKay okay I am still so smitten with him ).

The probelm stems actually from insecurities of others, and something we all have to deal with in one way or another...and something we all must take on in our own individual style and mannor. I have had patients hit on me, and gently put them back in line...had co-workers..both male and female hit on me...same situation. I simply keep it "work"...oh and sometimes the phrase "well when I see one of those I think of how I get to put a tube in it" helps..LOL! Kinda hits the point of my mindset right there...I see things medically not sexually!!!!!

Not a male.... just a comment

Well, to start, I just want to say that I am NOT a male, but I have many male friends who are nurses and they are by far just as capable, caring, and professional as the female nurses I know (and in some cases more so). They don't go crazy at the sight of a woman's private parts, just as I don't go crazy when I am taking care of a man. I read the posts that you mentioned and I was actually kind of embarassed for these women who posted, because it seemed as though they just didn't get it. Men do not go into nursing becuase they want to see naked women (nursing a sick person is not sexy, by the way) or because they weren't "smart eough" to be a doctor. MOST men go into nursing because they are caring people who want to help people (whether they are men or women).... Male nurses do not get the respect that they deserve.

Who ever said females don't have it rough.

Interesting how many females are answering a question addressed to the men.

Looks like Marie was right after all. Having a separate board for the male nurses have served to only divide, instead of offering a place for relating.

I've been working with guys in critical care for many years and a lot of good natured teasing goes on on both sides...as long as its not around patients, as long as everyone knows its kidding around and nobody takes offense...all is good.

One cannot wave a magic wand and say 'no sexuality'...men and women are sexual beings like it or not. The real issue is that of good manners and where to draw the line.

I've watched female nurses become totally innappropriate around their male coworkers and I agree...it isn't objected to as quickly by the guys OR the gals.

Not all guys, however, enjoy being a sex object and we need to keep this in mind.

A male acquaintance of mine was subjected to a group of nurses who openly breastfed in the common breakroom, with constant talk about their breasts, showing of engorgement, leaking, etc. It bothered him, he was honest and shared it, and he was let go citing sexual harassment' reasons. He was compelled to file a suit to protect his own career and I hope he is successful....these women should have been more sensitive to HIM IMHO. Was it so difficult for them to tone things down/be a bit more discreet if he asked? But no...they had to go after him. Very sad IMHO.

On the other hand I've also worked with male nurses who joke innappropriately and take offense if a female asks them to cool it. I voiced my concern about his joking to a coworker after a femoral sheath'd patient was told to 'push with his third leg' as we boosted him up in the bed, and the next day the gossip was that I was a constipated bytch with no sense of humor..

So IMO we have to talk about these things honestly and stop the pizzy stuff.