Originally Posted by kmchugh

You know, sometimes things have a hidden context. Sometimes, that context can be kind of ugly. When I see that, it causes me to wonder why we allow these things to continue. Hence, this thread.

Recently, two threads on this board have given me pause for the hidden context they contained. Both have planted in my mind the question “Why are we, as male nurses, tolerating this?” I have a few ideas of my own, but what are your thoughts?

http://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96928
This is the first thread, and it appeared in the male nursing forum under the title “Men's sexualality (sic) in Nursing.” In this thread, the original poster questioned whether we, as men, were really able to put our libidos aside long enough to do an exam/procedure on a female patient without looking at her “private parts” in “that” way. Essentially, she suggested that we would be unable to do so. As I read the original post, I wondered whether sparks would fly. Not because I wasn’t sure whether any of us would take offense to the thread, but because I figured that post would be rapidly reported, and yanked off the board. It wasn’t and no ire was raised. Sparks didn’t fly. No one even poked fun at the notion that we didn’t have anything better to do than leer at this (or any) woman’s “private parts.” In fact, I felt the tone of most responses was almost apologetic. Why is that, I wonder? After all, didn’t the post attack our professionalism as nurses? Didn’t the OP suggest that we are nothing more than sexual beings, with no ability to control our baser instincts? Why did we tolerate this?

http://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90987
This is the second thread that gives me pause. In it, the original poster asks what is at least nominally a legitimate question as to whether or not men with copious chest hair should be required to wear t-shirts under their scrubs. When I saw the thread, I expected at least nod in the direction of infection control, or good grooming and the presentation of a professional appearance. Turns out that’s not where that thread went at all. In fact, within the first page we were treated to some nurses’ opinions about how sexy a hairy chest was (or wasn’t), and how they wouldn’t mind a male nurse with a little virile chest hair showing. And we all went along with the “joke.” Again, why is that?

Now, before I am accused of being a humorless stick in the mud, let me say that I can see the humor in both of these threads. Both caused me to at least smile. At the same time, however, the first thread seemed to me to perpetuate the stereotypes of men in general, as well as men in nursing. We are unable to control our sexual urges, and should not be trusted to look at women without drooling. In the second, we are treated to what is essentially a reduction of male nurses to sexual objects. Why do we allow this, when our female counterparts won’t tolerate the slightest hint of the same thing from men?

Consider what might have happened to both of these threads if they were put up about female, rather than male nurses.

In the first, suppose it was a woman who came up on the board stating that she didn’t like her husband, the doctor, working with female nurses. After all, women became nurses just so they could hook a rich doc for a husband, and didn’t care whether they stole him from someone else. I would guess that the OP would have been ripped a new one, and on very short order. However, boil both down, and the accusations are very similar. In both cases, the OP is simply suggesting that the nurse would be unable to control their baser instinct and act in a professional manner. In both cases, the OP would be suggesting that the nurse might behave in an immoral fashion because of that base instinct. However, in the actual thread, it seems to me that we are almost apologetic for the OP’s perception of men. Why do we need to apologize for her prejudice?

In the second case, let’s suppose that rather than chest hair, the OP had been concerned with large breasts on female nurses. Should they be required to wear a t-shirt, to prevent the scrub top from falling while the nurse is bent over, effectively “flashing” her chest at patients? Would that be an acceptable question? Moreover, suppose I posted a response to the question that said “Hey, I like big breasted women. If I had to be in the hospital, I wouldn’t mind a flash or two, to occupy my mind.” How long do you suppose it would be before I would be reminded (with righteous indignation) that the nurses were not there for my entertainment and titilation? How long before I was kicked to the curb for such vulgarity?

So, my question is this: Why do we, as male nurses, so readily tolerate that which would be intolerable if it came from us?

Kevin McHugh

I am a female and I wouldn't tolerate those remarks, they sound like they came from an unprofessional and immature person! I have worked w/ many
male nurses and never observed any behavior from them that would indicate that sort of image. I've been a nurse for i6 years and have worked in many hospitals and nursing homes.

[
Keep your forum goiong guys and don't let a few feminists hold you down! Just don't forget to turn those nice butts in my direction once in awhile!
Oh come on, you have to admit you look at boobs and/or butts too

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Thank you LPNer. I believe this was the point I was trying to make, from a female patient's point of view. I agree with you, I don't think it is possible for men to just turn off the male gene.

Your honesty is refreshing.

More notes from the female perspective

As a female who has worked with a lot of male nurses, I too, find the accusations offensive to men. The OP assumes men have only animal urges and can't control themselves. That stereotype is to men as the ones of the female nurse with the spiked white heels, short white dress and over done make up. Nurses are quick to try to quell those ads that depict women nurses that way.

I do have a question of the men though. We have lots of male nurses on staff in our ER, and a good mixture of male and female physicians. It still seems that the female nurse, or tech is the one to assist in pelvic exams even if the doctor is female. I have also been asked by a male physician to accompany him when he does a rectal on a female, and not have the male RN go with him if it is his patient. That seems to reinforce this same stereotype, that if 2 men go into a room with a vulnerable female, then they must have sexual thoughts about her! How do you do things where you work? I don't mind being the chaparone, but it seems like a double standard.

Years ago a non nurse friend asked me if my husband ever got jealous because I was "around so many naked men". I told her that he knew that most of the penis' I saw, had a foley hanging out of them! Somehow that just doesn't evoke any passionate feelings at all!

Originally Posted by Dixielee

As a female who has worked with a lot of male nurses, I too, find the accusations offensive to men. The OP assumes men have only animal urges and can't control themselves. That stereotype is to men as the ones of the female nurse with the spiked white heels, short white dress and over done make up. Nurses are quick to try to quell those ads that depict women nurses that way.

I do have a question of the men though. We have lots of male nurses on staff in our ER, and a good mixture of male and female physicians. It still seems that the female nurse, or tech is the one to assist in pelvic exams even if the doctor is female. I have also been asked by a male physician to accompany him when he does a rectal on a female, and not have the male RN go with him if it is his patient. That seems to reinforce this same stereotype, that if 2 men go into a room with a vulnerable female, then they must have sexual thoughts about her! How do you do things where you work? I don't mind being the chaparone, but it seems like a double standard.

Years ago a non nurse friend asked me if my husband ever got jealous because I was "around so many naked men". I told her that he knew that most of the penis' I saw, had a foley hanging out of them! Somehow that just doesn't evoke any passionate feelings at all!

As crude as it sounds the Doc is simply trying to protect himself and the nurse. In the ER especially you just don't know who you have there and so many women (everybody for that matter) are simply looking for a way to accuse another person of inappropriate behavior. As soon as they manage to make an accusation, they are free to file a suit against the Doc and nurse. By taking a woman with him for the exam, the pt is less likely to sue because if it were two men the pt looking for a law suit can claim one man is simply trying to "cover up" for the other.
It would not likely survive in court but who in this day can afford to take that chance?! Even out of court settlements are cheaper than fighting the accusations. Our system is way out of control on this and you can't blame the Doc for trying to cover his back side.
It's childish for people to act this way, but one Doc at one time and one nurse at some other time crossed the line now all have to pay for it.
Just look at some of the posts we have in this thread, there are nurses who actuallly think other nurses are only in it for the sexual arrousal! With that kind of attitude, how is a man to survive in his job? How can any of us ever expect to be treated as professionals if we do not even believe in the professionalism of our peers?