by lorster

I am not a male nurse but I want to ask a question and get some feedback. I'm a female nurse who has worked med surg for 20 years. We have nursing students at our hospital. Last year I had a male nursing student on our pediatric unit for the semester. He was a junior at the time, a native american, on a full ride scholarship and a 4.0 student. (they have to be 4.0 to do clinicals at our hospital, long story). This student did a great job and the kids loved him. He was efficient and consistently used the nursing process and provided exceptional care to the little patients and their families. But I sensed that his instructor did not like him. She was rude to him and came to me on several occasions wanting to know if he had done anything wrong which I always said, No, he is doing a great job and will be an excellent nurse. Fast forward to last week when this student is doing his senior preceptorship on my unit again. I asked him why he chose med surg for his preceptorship and he said he didn't, he had chose the nursery. The nursery nurses told him he could not do his preceptorship in the nursery but did not give a specific reason. He also told me he had been given a C in the peds class last year which was the first time he had received any grade less than an A. This instuctor also works in our nursery. I feel strongly that this guy has been discriminated against and I'm not sure why. Can I get some feedback from some of you guys? Are you not allowed to work in a nursery or on OB? Thanks for reading this long post.

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Not a guy, lorster, but I can tell you I witnessed my CI be prejudicial against a male student in my clinical group. She not only made it obvious by her demeanor that she thought males had no place in nursing, she SAID it. Nothing was ever done about her

I think it stinks that some can be in a position of "power" and abuse it as it sounds like she did. Does he have any recourse regarding the C in peds??

I wish him luck and much success. THAT will be his best revenge!

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

some CI's do discriminate, like truern said. there was one guy in my clinical group, smarter then heck, and my psych CI could not stand him. she would hover over him so bad that he would come out of a room and be almost shaking. she told him he would never amt to anything and that he should change his career choice, since he was in a female's world.

he unfortunately almost flunked out by this instructor but was graced with another chance and did graduate. it's unfortunate, but it happens.

men are certainly allowed to work with babies. some of the best NNP's i have worked with are males.

i wish this student lots of success too and i hope he does get to work in the nursery one day.

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Thanks for your reply truern. I'm not sure he has any recourse and I'm not even sure I gave him sound advice but what I told him to do was to get his degree in June, pass his boards and then write a letter to both the University and the hospital. I hated giving him this advice but really did not want him to compromise his position. Now I'm beating myself up because aren't we supposed to be proactive and take a stand against this type of treatment and not fear retaliation? But this is a small place and he has 4 months to go and this is the only hospital.

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Originally Posted by lorster

Thanks for your reply truern. I'm not sure he has any recourse and I'm not even sure I gave him sound advice but what I told him to do was to get his degree in June, pass his boards and then write a letter to both the University and the hospital. I hated giving him this advice but really did not want him to compromise his position. Now I'm beating myself up because aren't we supposed to be proactive and take a stand against this type of treatment and not fear retaliation? But this is a small place and he has 4 months to go and this is the only hospital.

good advice.

maybe you could also contact the director of the nursing program where this student goes after his preceptorship is over and voice your concerns in his favor. it may be not able to help him, but maybe another male student who is in this CI's group.

i agree that he should wait it out, bide his time and graduate. he's come too far. he's lucky to have you as a preceptor!

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Originally Posted by lorster

I told him to do was to get his degree in June, pass his boards and then write a letter to both the University and the hospital.

Originally Posted by flightnurse2b

i agree that he should wait it out, bide his time and graduate. he's come too far.

I agree....no sense rocking the boat and chance getting thrown overboard. I wouldn't risk my degree if I were him, BUT I'd make sure the powers that be are aware AFTER graduation!

Originally Posted by flightnurse2b

he's lucky to have you as a preceptor!

Ditto that!

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Yeah he should probably wait before making a complaint. Ive seen this "type" of instructor a thousand times. Usually some dried up old bitty who can't attract a man anymore so takes it out on every one she sees.

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Originally Posted by truern

Not a guy, lorster, but I can tell you I witnessed my CI be prejudicial against a male student in my clinical group. She not only made it obvious by her demeanor that she thought males had no place in nursing, she SAID it. Nothing was ever done about her

I think it stinks that some can be in a position of "power" and abuse it as it sounds like she did. Does he have any recourse regarding the C in peds??

I wish him luck and much success. THAT will be his best revenge!

Was that CI still living back in the 70's or something and still thinks that all nurses do is wipe rear ends and give baths? Nursing is so technical now and advanced that the only thing I see feminine about it is the title "nurse". I don't see how having a job that revolves keeping patient's alive and safe has any gender bias to it. It irritates me when people says to me "Oh you decided to become a male nurse. We need more male nurses." I always want to ask them "why do we need more male nurses?" ha! Man, the public is so clueless as to what nurses do. If only nurses had a different title to it then there wouldn't be such a deal that men are doing it. We also need to get away from these Johnson & Johnson commercials that portray that nurses are Care Bears and full of fluff just waiting around to wipe a rear with soft tissue and then hand holding after.

-David

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Originally Posted by dhammo01

Was that CI still living back in the 70's or something and still thinks that all nurses do is wipe rear ends and give baths? Nursing is so technical now and advanced that the only thing I see feminine about it is the title "nurse". I don't see how having a job that revolves keeping patient's alive and safe has any gender bias to it. It irritates me when people says to me "Oh you decided to become a male nurse. We need more male nurses." I always want to ask them "why do we need more male nurses?" ha! Man, the public is so clueless as to what nurses do. If only nurses had a different title to it then there wouldn't be such a deal that men are doing it. We also need to get away from these Johnson & Johnson commercials that portray that nurses are Care Bears and full of fluff just waiting around to wipe a rear with soft tissue and then hand holding after.

-David

I spent a sizeable portion of this previous weekend wiping butts and holding hands. (I did wash between.) I have to admit, the butt-wiping was not especially satisfying, but it needed done and the aide was busy wiping some other butt. The hand-holding, though, seemed like a big part of what being a nurse is about. Had a couple of pts who needed hope and encouragement more urgently than any meds they were getting, and as much as I couldn't really spare the time, I took it, anyway.
Mind you, I'm not looking to pick a fight. I often agree that the "angels of mercy" angle is overplayed. Had another pt whose family seemed to believe they were in serious need of some butt-kissing, and I really didn't have time for much of that.
I've heard "we need more male nurses," pretty often, starting in school (My instructors were pretty excited that my class had the most males ever and were impeccably fair in their treatment of us, so I have no direct experience of the treatment lorster describes. I'm told a guy would have a pretty hard time getting into OB at our facility and that I'll never get pulled there, but I'm actually fairly content with that, so I've never been inclined to investigate how true it may or may not be.) I'm not entirely sure what's meant by "needing" males. I think a lot of it has to do with simple diversity, but you rarely hear anyone say we "need" more black or Hispanic nurses. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "women are catty" stereotype, but a lot of the women who seem to be in favor of more men do not buy into, or feed into, that stereotype. And while I'm sure heavy lifting is at least a part of it, I don't think it's a big part of it.

I've read and heard a lot that men tend to gravitate to the more "technical" nursing, like ICU, or the adrenaline rush of ED. It does appear at my facility that those departments have a greater representation of men than the "floors" do. My unit has an attached stepdown sub-unit, and that has started to be my favorite assignment, but it's mostly because I feel like I learn a lot, and a 3:1 ratio gives me more time to spend with each pt than 5-6:1.

I'm a full-body ache as I type this. Friday night was pretty cake, but Sat and Sun beat me like a rented mule. It was emotionally draining, too, and on a few occassions I was actually required to think. Still, it wasn't entirely unfulfilling. Being 52 has a lot to do with the aches, but was helpful with some of the emotional stuff. Recognizing your own mortality gives you a certain perspective on the mortality of strangers. I mean, death and disease suck, but what're ya gonna do?
At no point in the past three days did being a man seem like a disadvantage to me. Well, co-workers sexually harassing me while I'm trying to chart was a bit of a distraction, but sexual harassment has always been my favorite among all forms of harassment. My confused, combative patient never took a swing at me, so that might be a case where being a guy helped. I don't think he was oriented enough to be intimidated, but a lot of agitated patients just seem to be calmer with males. Not sure why. Could just be a deeper voice. Or maybe I'm less afraid, and they sense that. Less often, but still sometimes, needy, demanding, or overbearing pts or families seem to behave a bit better with guys, but that isn't nearly as clear a trend as the confused ones.

So, to the OP's question, I've never felt discriminated against, although I am led to believe I might have a tough time getting into a perinatal setting. I've posted at ridiculous length on other threads about the unfairness of that, but it's pretty theoretical for me, since that isn't something I really want to do, anyway. I don't think I've benefited from any particular favoritism, either. I've been told by more than a few patients that "men make better nurses," which supports dhammo's assertion that the public doesn't know much about what nursing really is, because pretty much all the guys I know are good nurses, but most of the very best nurses I know are women (hey, I'll be that good, too, when I've been doing this thirty years...although, I'll be 78, so that may slow me down some...) I think some patients are pleasantly surprised when a scruffy guy treats them with care and empathy, so we get a little more credit than we deserve. I mean, awhile back, I got my picture on the bulletin board, basically for giving a pt sennakot, then cleaning up after she pooped. I mean, I did it with compassion, but still...

Re: I have a Question for you Male Nurses out there.

Can't speak to the specifics and I'm not a guy, but I was discriminated against by a clinical instructor and a preceptor was told by this instructor to fail me. The preceptor refused to precept me under these circumstances and told me what had happened. I regret that this good student got shafted with an unearned C and hope that he will still consider going into peds if that is what he wants.

If you do contact the school in his behalf after he graduates, make sure you do so in writing, and you might want to let him know about your support. It would also be nice if you could support him otherwise. That would be a just turn of events to counter the damage that his instructor did.