Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by TEXAS_onc_RN

My Response to this post is obviously well after the original, I just found it.
Shawn get over it. I have been an RN for about 5 yrs now and although I had one instructor say that "men shouldn't be nurses" I have had nothing but positive input and interaction with my peers and patients. If anything I feel as though I am able to advance in my profession quicker than my female counterparts. Here is where I stereotype the female nurses.
Many of my female peers aren't as eager to accept new responsibilities. My "male nature" pushes me to accept new challenges and overlook the feare of the unknown. I am currently working a House Supervisor much to the dismay of some of the female nurses that have been nurses much longer. They expressed a fear of taking on such responsiblity. That is sad and unfortunate for them but I am able to reap the rewards from the gender differences.
I don't call myself a male nurse. I call myself a nurse. The fact that I am a male is self evident.
Quit looking for discrimination. It doesn't matter if some people have hang-ups, I don't.

Don't get me wrong. My original response to the OP was that he was being a little over-dramatic and exaggerating about male discrimination in nursing. Definitely making a mountain out of a mole hill.

But I am getting a little tired of the "I've never seen or experienced discrimination in my nursing career, therefore it must not exist" type responses.
Just because it's never been a part of your work life doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Different hospitals and units have their own culture and standards on what's considered to be acceptable behavior at work, it's not the same everywhere.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by papawjohn

The only place where I've experience any sense that I didn't fit in because of my Y chromosome was in PedsICU (a little bit--esp with infants) and in NICU (where I was pulled once in a while and found to be a very very very high estrogen-index place.)

Any NICU or Peds nurses have a contribution?

Peds nurse here. I work in a Peds LTC facility and on my unit we are 3 male nurses. All the female nurses are eager to work with us. Our clerk told one of the MD's that she enjoys working with the "GUYS" because we don't gossip. Of course we gossip about the football game last night but never any cat fights. I enjoy working in Peds because kids are fun to work with. Play hide-and-seek, read bed time stories. Besides, it keeps us young at heart! I would highly recommend it!

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

The fact is that our society, our culture, and our legal system refuse to apply the same legal standards with regard to discrimination against men in nursing with regard to discrimination against females and minorities in other employment fields. For example, the McDonnel Douglas (spelling may be incorrect) legal standard is that if the percentage of a gender or race in a field is substantially below that which is the case in the general population, a presumption of discrimination is raised which must be over come by direct evidence to the contrary. Of course, nursing educators nor employers can nor will overcome this legal presumption by direct evidence. All of the direct evidence indicates the contrary (the few men in nursing, the higher rate of men leaving nursing school, the higher rate of men leaving the nursing profession).
Of course, without effective legal redress to this invidious discrimination, men will not have the legal means to efficaciously address discrimination in tradtionally female fields such as nursing with the result that the continuing deficit in men in traditionally female fields will continue.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by Demonsthenes

The fact is that our society, our culture, and our legal system refuse to apply the same legal standards with regard to discrimination against men in nursing with regard to discrimination against females and minorities in other employment fields. For example, the McDonnel Douglas (spelling may be incorrect) legal standard is that if the percentage of a gender or race in a field is substantially below that which is the case in the general population, a presumption of discrimination is raised which must be over come by direct evidence to the contrary. Of course, nursing educators nor employers can nor will overcome this legal presumption by direct evidence. All of the direct evidence indicates the contrary (the few men in nursing, the higher rate of men leaving nursing school, the higher rate of men leaving the nursing profession).
Of course, without effective legal redress to this invidious discrimination, men will not have the legal means to efficaciously address discrimination in tradtionally female fields such as nursing with the result that the continuing deficit in men in traditionally female fields will continue.

I think the bottom line here is that many flat out refuse to believe that any WASP male can ever be discriminated against because it is thought that everything is handed to us from birth, so therefore, we're really not entitled to any protection or justice if in fact it did happen.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by Demonsthenes

The fact is that our society, our culture, and our legal system refuse to apply the same legal standards with regard to discrimination against men in nursing with regard to discrimination against females and minorities in other employment fields. For example, the McDonnel Douglas (spelling may be incorrect) legal standard is that if the percentage of a gender or race in a field is substantially below that which is the case in the general population, a presumption of discrimination is raised which must be over come by direct evidence to the contrary. Of course, nursing educators nor employers can nor will overcome this legal presumption by direct evidence. All of the direct evidence indicates the contrary (the few men in nursing, the higher rate of men leaving nursing school, the higher rate of men leaving the nursing profession).
Of course, without effective legal redress to this invidious discrimination, men will not have the legal means to efficaciously address discrimination in tradtionally female fields such as nursing with the result that the continuing deficit in men in traditionally female fields will continue.

On the other hand, you don't see a lot of black hockey players, either.

I think it is probable that many men are culturally predisposed against nursing. I don't believe it is the responsibility of nursing to overcome that, although it may well be in nursing's interest to do so.

The standard you propose seems to require proving a negative--that nursing does not discriminate--but that's notoriously difficult. I certainly don't suggest that the numbers of us who don't feel we have been discriminated against proves that none are, but I think we do prove that it is possible for a man to have a positive experience in nursing, at least in some settings.

While I don't go quite as far as teeituptom, I do also believe that our society has developed a tendency to blame individual problems on systematic oppression. Not every male who has a bad time in nursing is discriminated against. Many women leave the profession, as well. It's a hard job that demands a lot, including odd shifts, working weekends and holidays, considerable emotional toll, and some fairly foul smells. It isn't for everybody, and not everybody is suited for it.

Which isn't to say that discrimination doesn't occur, or that we shouldn't work to overcome it.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by teeituptom

I think times have changed, where men were less dramatic, less nasty, less backbiting. A lot of these young fellas I work with are completely different in their behaviours and actions as opposed to me. When I was young all young men were raised to be men. To be Manly, To not whine and fuss and all that stuff. The John Wayne syndrome I guess.
Now these young guys dont have any role models like that and actors and role models they grew up with tended to be much more whiny and histrionic. And look at all these wimpy guys who live at home with their Parents sponging off them and they are up into their 30s. Shuckins I moved out at 16 and lived on the beach, never thought of moving back.

What an odd rebuttal.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Originally Posted by NurseKitty NC

There is a male nursing student who has clinicals at my hospital. He is extremely strange, almost sociopathic in nature. He appears to lack basic social skills, manners, and ability to show emotion. He basically paces up and down the halls when not with his patient (the students get only one patient per day), and then when he does go in, he acts like a robot. This guy is due to graduate this year. What do you think about his ability to be a decent nurse upon graduation?

Not sure this has anything to do with gender.

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Whoah Guys! Sounds like a heated discussion you have been having here
As for "male nurses" I agree that the gender part should be left off, we are all nurses, something else that bugs me is when someone says "they are just an LPN", there are no "just LPN's", I have worked with a few that could back me into a corner with their knowledge and skills! Back to the subject at hand, I work with 2 nurses, that are male, at a homehealth agency and the staff and patients alike love them!!! I have no problem with guys being nurses, in fact we like to joke with them about seeing the patients that we have that are a little "frisky" with the female nurses if you know what I mean I'm sure that there are discrimination issues for male nurses, however there are also issues of discrimination such as age, when I first became a nurse I was 19 and all of the pt's thought I couldn't possibly be a good nurse because I wasn't "old enough", in fact the first thing they would ask is " honey ,how old are you?"

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Just a reminder:

Re: Discrimination Against Men in Nursing

Why?