Very angry - page 2

:angryfireHey guys I got to work at the hospital this weekend for the weekend shift and found out something just horrific. I found out that one of the male CNA's had sexually abused a patient... Read More

  1. by   mattsmom81
    There simply MUST be something more than a rumor in place for me to attempt to ruin someone's life and livelihood. But admittedly I am a kinder and gentler kind of nurse than many and tend not to attack my coworkers, nor do I report them unless it is something 'first person', tangible and harmful to patients. Unsubstantiated rumors do not fall into this category. Not for me.
  2. by   mingez
    Quote from mattsmom81
    There simply MUST be something more than a rumor in place for me to attempt to ruin someone's life and livelihood. But admittedly I am a kinder and gentler kind of nurse than many and tend not to attack my coworkers, nor do I report them unless it is something 'first person', tangible and harmful to patients. Unsubstantiated rumors do not fall into this category. Not for me.
    Point taken, and I think it's good form.

    I'm a guy, so I've always been scared of the "False accusation" thing. One can simply cry wolf and the involved Male is immediatly assumed (by most) to be guilty. I agree with you, I just think there's a happy medium. (Well, perhaps "happy" isn't the best word. )

    What's the bigger evil: False accusation or undiscovered abuse?

    Of course, it's never that black and white, just be responsible with rumors, and make sure to look into all posibilities while attempting limit the gossip factor. Daunting I know.
    Last edit by mingez on Apr 16, '05
  3. by   Lawnurse
    Quote from mingez


    What's the bigger evil: False accusation or undiscovered abuse?
    Knowing there will be some false accusations, our justice system provides every defendant a FREE lawyer. As well as the right to call witnesses to back up their own story, and the right for their own lawyer to shred to other witnesses to peices on the stand. They also have a right to have false/fake/unreliable evidence excluded at trial, as well as actual good evidence that was collected wrongly (ie the cops search something without the necesary warrent) even if it proves guilt. The defendant also has a right to another trial if procedural and reversible mistakes were made.

    Furthermore, the defendant has a right to sue the accuser (if the accusor know the allegations were false) in civil suit or the government for malicious prosecution.

    There are ALSO judicial actions against someone who knowingly brings false accusations (ie calls up the police and lies.)

    I'm not saying our justice system is fantastic, but it has tried to take into account that there will be false accusations. And no, these safeguards don't make it worthwhile to be accused falsely, but few juducial remedies ever make up for the crime (ie no amount of money makes it okay that your loved one was killed).

    Conversely, the victim doesn't get anything special in the even that the crime against them goes unreportred. In fact, they get nothing at all.

    For these reasons, the justice systems asks for every reasonably held belief that abuse has occured, and they take it from there.
  4. by   dazzle256
    Quote from Lawnurse
    Knowing there will be some false accusations, our justice system provides every defendant a FREE lawyer. As well as the right to call witnesses to back up their own story, and the right for their own lawyer to shred to other witnesses to peices on the stand. They also have a right to have false/fake/unreliable evidence excluded at trial, as well as actual good evidence that was collected wrongly (ie the cops search something without the necesary warrent) even if it proves guilt. The defendant also has a right to another trial if procedural and reversible mistakes were made.

    Furthermore, the defendant has a right to sue the accuser (if the accusor know the allegations were false) in civil suit or the government for malicious prosecution.

    There are ALSO judicial actions against someone who knowingly brings false accusations (ie calls up the police and lies.)



    I'm not saying our justice system is fantastic, but it has tried to take into account that there will be false accusations. And no, these safeguards don't make it worthwhile to be accused falsely, but few juducial remedies ever make up for the crime (ie no amount of money makes it okay that your loved one was killed).

    Conversely, the victim doesn't get anything special in the even that the crime against them goes unreportred. In fact, they get nothing at all.

    For these reasons, the justice systems asks for every reasonably held belief that abuse has occured, and they take it from there.
    I didn't know we all are entitled to FREE lawyers. I need to tell our friend who is going bankrupt due to false accusations.

    Its more of a guilty until proven innocent system.
  5. by   Lawnurse
    Criminal court. Crimes are heard in criminal court, where all defendants are entitled to a free lawyer.
  6. by   dazzle256
    Quote from Lawnurse
    Criminal court. Crimes are heard in criminal court, where all defendants are entitled to a free lawyer.
    I honestly didn't know that and was serious about my friend going bankrupt. He's paying a lot of money for a lawyer for an accusation of child sexual assault. You'd have to know the whole story I honestly believe he didn't do it. But like I said earlier he's having to prove his innocence.
  7. by   Lawnurse
    Quote from dazzle256
    I honestly didn't know that and was serious about my friend going bankrupt. He's paying a lot of money for a lawyer for an accusation of child sexual assault. You'd have to know the whole story I honestly believe he didn't do it. But like I said earlier he's having to prove his innocence.
    It's part of the Miranda rights - the stuff they have to tell you when they get arrested and taken into custody.

    1. You have the right remain silent
    2. Anything you say can be held against you in court
    3. You have the right to the presence of an attorney
    4. If you cannnot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you prior to any questioning.

    (from the Supremem Court case Miranda v. Arizona in 1966)

    These lawyers are called "public defenders."
  8. by   dazzle256
    Quote from Lawnurse
    It's part of the Miranda rights - the stuff they have to tell you when they get arrested and taken into custody.

    1. You have the right remain silent
    2. Anything you say can be held against you in court
    3. You have the right to the presence of an attorney
    4. If you cannnot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you prior to any questioning.

    (from the Supremem Court case Miranda v. Arizona in 1966)

    These lawyers are called "public defenders."
    I knew about Miranda.....it doesn't say "everyone" is entitled to a free lawyer.

    So once you loose your house job and car you get a free attorny to prove your not guilty. Doesn't look like to me from the Miranda rights "everybody" is entitled to a free attorny. Well he lost his job due to spending 4 mos in jail with absolutely no evidence against him... his house and car will be gone soon...... then he gets a "free" lawyer. Sometimes I wonder why my husband and I work as hard as we do.....because everything would be free if we didn't.
  9. by   ryanfocker
    question?

    how long did "unsubstantiated rumors" and "gossip" go on in the church? how many kids had there lives ruined because abused kids wouldn't stick up for themselves.

    why do rapists rape 20-30 women before they are caught?

    often, the abused are targeted due to low self esteem and because they come off as "weak". it is for that reason that other people must stick up for them and do something about it, not simply wait for the abused to go to the cops.

    although i am not christian, i believe we are our brothers' keeper.

    if i am wrong, i will say "i'm sorry"
  10. by   Havin' A Party!
    Quote from mattsmom81
    What I am reading here is simply a lot of hearsay, and judging based on gossip, which is wrong IMHO. ONLY the people directly involved/witness have the information to give to authorities. These people have a duty to report. I don't report nor repeat hearsay..to me thats simply evil gossip.

    Stuff like this ruins lives and we should be absolutely certain before repeating it, IMHO.
    Absolutely agree!
  11. by   MacERRN
    "I just can't believe how someone can be so perverted, selfish..."

    It is easy to understand. This world is full of devils. Their juice is meth, and crack. They prey on the young, the weak, the VULNERABLE. That is why you should trust NO ONE, and train your kids to TRUST NO ONE!
  12. by   begalli
    Quote from JoeERRN18

    This world is full of devils. Their juice is meth, and crack. They prey on the young, the weak, the VULNERABLE.
    The part about their "juice" is only partially true. Abusers come from all socioeconomic backgrounds.

    While I understand and have sympathy for those who are falsly accused, I would not hesitate reporting someone if I had any inkling that they were being abusive in any way...at work or away from work.

    train your kids to TRUST NO ONE!
    The most important thing to do for your kids is to talk openly with them about what abuse is exactly and that no matter what anyone tells them, and ESPECIALLY if someone tells them NOT to tell anyone or makes threats, that they can come to you and tell you about it. Make sure they understand that there is no shame in talking about ANYTHING. And then believe your kids when they do.
    Last edit by begalli on Jun 2, '05

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