The Great Double Standard? - page 3

I would like opinions from the rest of you guys. It seems everywhere I turn that there is this double standard that men nurses should not be providing care for any of women's intimate needs. I am... Read More

  1. by   fins
    "I think we can agree that the patient's desires come out on top regardless of how reasonable we (the nursing staff) might view that request. Even if it bucks the current zeit geist for gender relations, we are bound by "patient bill of rights" to respond accordingly to their request. Anyone disagree?"

    I've got to disagree. What if the patient was uncomfortable with a nurse who wasn't white? Would we all be falling over ourselves talking about how the patient's desires come first? Of course not - in fact, about a year ago there was that exact issue in a maternity ward around here. The hospital agreed to provide white nurses, and there was a huge blowout about it (as well there should be.)

    So basically, when you boil it down, if you think it's ok for a patient to refuse a male nurse, then you think gender discrimination is ok. Only in this very narrow circumstance, but discrimination is discrimination.

    Once you say that it's ok to accommodate gender discrimination (in whatever narrow conditions you put on it), then you forfeit the right to argue that gender discrimination is wrong. Instead you can only argue about when it is appropriate.

    Try these on for size:
    "I don't want a black nurse." not ok - racism
    "I don't want a gay nurse." not ok - discrimination
    "I don't want a male nurse." oh, that's understandable, and we'll try to accommodate your preferences

    Why is it ok to discriminate based on gender, while it is horrible to discriminate based on other criteria?
  2. by   JustinTJ
    You make a very powerful point.
  3. by   Eyefish999
    I had a female pt refuse my care....she was in the hospital for high BP..she said if i was her nurse her BP would go skyhigh and she would not be discharged in the morning..lol .. hey at least she gave some medical rationale
  4. by   ALEXIS VALIENTE
    Quote from Doog
    I would like opinions from the rest of you guys. It seems everywhere I turn that there is this double standard that men nurses should not be providing care for any of women's intimate needs. I am still in nursing school, but it seems women nurses have no problem caring for either a male or female patient (students included), but men do not have that ability? I just don't quite understand this, when it is not even the patients perogative involved, just these female nurses who think they know "whats best". I would like this taboo to dissappear. Does anyone else see this? Any ideas who to remedy this issue and be able to call a nurse a nurse, and not a male or female nurse, each playing by different rules. I am pretty frustrated.

    and one more thing... male pt doesnt want a male (gay or not gay) nurse to do catheterization on them...
    hahahhaah!!! ohh men!!!! hahahhaha
  5. by   somberhue
    Quote from ALEXIS VALIENTE
    and one more thing... male pt doesnt want a male (gay or not gay) nurse to do catheterization on them...
    hahahhaah!!! ohh men!!!! hahahhaha

    im a gay and my male pt seems uncomfortable just thinking that i will insert urinary catheter on them. maybe they are afraid that i might arouse them.... DUH?!?!?!
  6. by   Bill E. Rubin
    I haven't experienced too much of this... I'm a male nursing student working as a PCA on a med surg floor (same place I did my first clinical rotation). The staff doesn't ever have a problem with me providing whatever care is needed. After all it makes their workload lighter.

    On occasion I will answer a call light for a female patient who asks for a "nurse" (translation:female) to do her bedpan. I usually tell her that I'm happy to page her nurse, but that it may take a while and if the need is urgent, I'm happy to oblige right now. Usually they choose to have me do it. As a PCA, I can't do foleys, so it's not an issue at present.
  7. by   TDub
    Quote from Doog
    I must reply now that this post has resurfaced, that I haven't experienced any bias now that I am a new RN at a different hospital. I feel that I am treated equally amongst my peers, who are right in my same age range. Not saying that more mature nurses couldnt accept me as an equal peer, just that the situations I encountered were with more experienced-long timers.

    Shawn
    Oh, that's great. I'm so glad you stuck with it. You sound like a terrific nurse.
  8. by   TDub
    Quote from fins
    "I think we can agree that the patient's desires come out on top regardless of how reasonable we (the nursing staff) might view that request. Even if it bucks the current zeit geist for gender relations, we are bound by "patient bill of rights" to respond accordingly to their request. Anyone disagree?"

    I've got to disagree. What if the patient was uncomfortable with a nurse who wasn't white? Would we all be falling over ourselves talking about how the patient's desires come first? Of course not - in fact, about a year ago there was that exact issue in a maternity ward around here. The hospital agreed to provide white nurses, and there was a huge blowout about it (as well there should be.)

    So basically, when you boil it down, if you think it's ok for a patient to refuse a male nurse, then you think gender discrimination is ok. Only in this very narrow circumstance, but discrimination is discrimination.

    Once you say that it's ok to accommodate gender discrimination (in whatever narrow conditions you put on it), then you forfeit the right to argue that gender discrimination is wrong. Instead you can only argue about when it is appropriate.

    Try these on for size:
    "I don't want a black nurse." not ok - racism
    "I don't want a gay nurse." not ok - discrimination
    "I don't want a male nurse." oh, that's understandable, and we'll try to accommodate your preferences

    Why is it ok to discriminate based on gender, while it is horrible to discriminate based on other criteria?
    You know, you make absolutely valid points. It is discrimination to designate the gender of your nurse; I can't argue. But, (you knew there was a but in there, didn't you?) I could no more have a male nurse for something personal than I could fly. For reasons not relevant to this discussion, I would get so anxious and embarrassed I would cry or throw up. My heart pounds, I'm scared, nauseated and have a blinger of a headache. I'm sorry, but I can't, I just can't have a male caretaker-doc, nurse or aide. I'd have not know about it to make it through a personal procedure, as in unconcious. It took years to not have a panic attack with my very kind, nice male dentist and that was just cleaning my teeth! ( I also can't be sedated, for the same reasons. I'm terrified something will happen to me.)

    So I'm afraid, even though it's probably discrimination, some women will always refuse male nurses. Sorry about that.
  9. by   58flyer
    Quote from TDub
    You know, you make absolutely valid points. It is discrimination to designate the gender of your nurse; I can't argue. But, (you knew there was a but in there, didn't you?) I could no more have a male nurse for something personal than I could fly. For reasons not relevant to this discussion, I would get so anxious and embarrassed I would cry or throw up. My heart pounds, I'm scared, nauseated and have a blinger of a headache. I'm sorry, but I can't, I just can't have a male caretaker-doc, nurse or aide. I'd have not know about it to make it through a personal procedure, as in unconcious. It took years to not have a panic attack with my very kind, nice male dentist and that was just cleaning my teeth! ( I also can't be sedated, for the same reasons. I'm terrified something will happen to me.)

    So I'm afraid, even though it's probably discrimination, some women will always refuse male nurses. Sorry about that.
    TDub, there's nothing to be sorry about. I know exactly where you are coming from, and I'm in the same boat, but in reverse. As a male I can't accept the thought of personal care by any female.

    I don't think discrimination by a patient is even possible. After all, they are not the professional, the medical staff is. So they (the patient) are allowed to voice their preferences no matter how absurd it may seem.

    It is discrimination when a male healthcare professional is not allowed to work in certain areas because of his sex, when female healthcare professionals are not similarly restricted. It is discrimination when such limitations are put in place by people who are motivated by their own personal preferences. Any competent medical professional has the good judgement to know when it's time to withdraw from a personal care situation and find someone of the same gender to trade out with. I also believe that the patient has the right to make the call as to who treats them, and no one should take that personally.
  10. by   Levin
    Try these on for size: "I don't want a black nurse." not ok - racism "I don't want a gay nurse." not ok - discrimination "I don't want a male nurse." oh, that's understandable, and we'll try to accommodate your preferences Why is it ok to discriminate based on gender, while it is horrible to discriminate based on other criteria?
    Thankyou fins for putting that so simply and elegantly. Levin
    Last edit by Levin on Sep 2, '07 : Reason: Fprmatting was borked.
  11. by   TDub
    58flyer , I'm glad you know not to take it personally. I agree with you about being restricted ONLY because of gender.

    If I walked in your room and you said, "I'm sorry, I just can't have a female nurse", I would be very happy to find a man for you. I totally understand!
  12. by   ImJustBSN
    I graduated nursing school in '97, and they all but exepted us from OB GYN stating we would never work in that field anyway.
  13. by   ElvishDNP
    I can tell you as a nurse and a patient, that I would not care if I had a male RN taking care of me. I probably wouldn't care if they were Martian, as long as they were competent and caring. That includes OB/GYN. I realize not everybody feels that way, but I would welcome a male RN onto my mother/baby unit as a coworker or as a patient. I don't see what the difference is between a male nurse and a male MD seeing my parts. I understand if someone else has an issue with it. I'm not judging that. I'm just saying that for me personally, it's a non-issue.

close