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westcoastgirl 3,277 Views

Joined: Sep 17, '04; Posts: 171 (21% Liked) ; Likes: 49
Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience

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  • Jul 30 '10

    If your interest is in improving your clinical acumen.......what is the point of the DNP?

    I appologize in advance to all who are working towards, or have attained, DNP status. I mean no disprespect to you. It is just that I see a golden opportunity (the DNP) being wasted. We could have had a "residency" of sorts, more rigorous courswork, been better euipped to serve our patients, and earned more respect from our MD/DO and even PA co-workers.

    The coursework has absolutely nothing to do with the development or maturation of clinical skillsets. There are no hard sciences. There are apparently no clinical-focused courses. There appear to be zero clinical hours involving patient care. Just papers and projects and theory and typical nursing school B.S.. To me, this is such a disappointing program.

    Can anyone advise me of a clinically-focused DNP program? I am ready and have my checkbook out.

  • Jul 30 '10

    (There are a lot of us experienced APNs out here who think the entire DNP proposal looks like little more than a money grab ... )

  • Jul 30 '10

    I would say that most of that is BS. I'm in a NP program right now and actually I'm happy I'm doing it prior to the DNP being "required" because I'll be grandfathered in and I'm not yet convinced I want to do the DNP. Ever. I'm all for education, but until I see proof that NPs are going to be compensated for that education (as in, making more than PAs who are required to have a Masters) I don't see the point.

    Besides, the position paper that recommended RN education to be a minimum of BSN came across YEARS ago and as we all know, plenty of good schools graduate wonderful ADNs every year! I'll believe it when I see it...

  • Jul 30 '10

    I wondered this myself about six months into the profession. As a person over 40 also, with a prior career in communications, I was shocked at the rudeness, the backstabbing and the unprofessionalism of nurses AND the managers I've had to work under. It truly IS different in this profession. Unless youv'e worked outside of it, you can't see the comparison.

    I agree w/ Altra -- unprofessionalism and just pure brutishness seems to be rewarded in nursing. It's why a lot of us don't stick with nursing and just go on to other things. It's just a lot better elsewhere, and, sadly, if you've got other skills and the actual ABILITY to be professional -- you move on.

  • Jul 30 '10

    In response to some of the posts that this exists in other industries I am well aware. I have worked in the restaurant business, as well as psych tech. I agree with those that stated this problem exists in restaurants as well. But I don't think of servers, bussers, and line cooks as professionals. Also in response to it being the same in retail, this is not meant to be offensive but I don't consider other than management at retail, to be a professional job. Also I hope you can ponder for a minute that you are now comparing nursing behavior which involves a degree, and a responsibility for someone else's health and well being, to a person working retail, or a waitress. I don't think that the two are in the same job category. No I am sorry but I will expect my co-workers to be professional. I also have already secured other employment. Please understand, I don't expect superhuman behavior. I have gotten upset at work. I just did not make a scene for an entire 8 hour shift and not speak to anyone. In response to taking on this behavior. This is not the first time this has happened. Several of the nurses like to give the new nurses a hard time and I have heard them discussing me while i was still there and confronted them in a professional manner. Not easy to do. I just feel like this is overwhelming problem at this point, which is why I am leaving. I am just hoping it is not like this everywhere. I guess this is my point. I am shocked. I have worked in several other positions including a restaurant(and for those of you who worked in one you know the unprofessional behavior that happens there.) the behavior from other nurses is shocking in comparison. Management does set the tone. Our manager just happens to be too nice.

  • Jul 30 '10

    Quote from 50caliber
    Trust me, this is the real world. You guys need to get this concept out of your head that nursing is a holy calling and everybody is out there to help the sick and bla bla. Its cut throat. People are out there for themselves only. You have to look out for yourself and do your best. I prefer to be friendly and get along with everyone which makes the night go by easier. You can do your part and conduct yourself like a professional and hopefully people will treat you like one.
    As I am over 40, I have been well-acquainted with the real world for quite some time now. My expectation that people act like adults who have basic good manners and social skills has nothing to do with any Mother Theresa complex.

    In various industries I worked in in my first career, a lack of interpersonal skills meant you would spend your career in some back-end job out of sight, if not unemployed altogether. In health care, bad interpersonal skills seem to be frequently rewarded.

    I can't figure it out.

  • Jul 30 '10

    There are a lot of factors that contribute to unhappy work environments like this. I'm imagining that one or more of the following may be at play here:
    - Constantly, daily stress
    - Staff feeling disempowered
    - Lack of good leadership
    - Lack of enough staff (if people are having to stay over to work consistently)
    - Lack of adequate compensation or recognition

    Obviously I don't know all the details, but these are enough factors to equate a pretty unhappy workplace. There's not much you can personally do except to stick up for yourself and not allow yourself to get sucked into the negativity. I've worked in multiple units in the same hospital system, and let me tell you that there is a radical difference among different units, all due to the above factors. There are units where I would love love love to work. There are others in which I would gouge my eyes out if forced to work there. My advice to you is to get out and move to another unit as soon as possible. An alternative would be to stay and work on creating positive change, but as a new(er) nurse, it may be hard to get people to change and take you seriously. Most of the time in those situations, change has to come from above.

  • Jul 30 '10

    I am in agreement with the post blaming management. The tone and work ethic of a unit or department is set by management. If management allows unacceptable and outrageous behavior it will continue and flourish...if they don't, it will go away.
    Those managers with unprofessional behavior on the unit will come to a point where they are overwhelmed by the poor morale and lack of team work of their staff and they will begin to blame the staff for their bad attitudes....but it always STARTS with management and ENDS with management.

  • Jul 30 '10

    no, i disagree 50caliber... you do not see this type of behavior in all work settings. i have never worked in other industries where i have heard people (within ear shot) gossiping about me. i have never worked with people prior to nursing who confront me in front of customers (patients in our case). i have never seen the bold display of disrespect or insults toward co-workers within the work place when i worked in two other industries. the kind of behaviors written about on this forum is described as horizontal workplace harassment and abuse and in other industries and is not tolerated. i have known people to be fired for less then what i have seen nurses get away with day in and day out. yes, every work setting gossips and has clicks etc, but the blatant harassment by nurses toward other nurses is outrageous!!

    op: i do not know the answer to your question. personally i am hoping that when i join the military again i will be surrounded by professionals in nursing. at least that is what the recruiting advertisements say!!! gl!

  • Jun 19 '10

    No one will argue that an ADN is well-prepared to work in the field. It is more about conveying that professional image that we are currently lacking to many patients/families, as well as opportunities to be taken more seriously, and perhaps bump up the salary scale. Many allied health professions are increasing their minimum requirements to bachelors level or master's level. Their starting salaries tend to be higher. We still have states where RN's do not make a minimum 20$/hr which I find disturbing.
    Educational increase requirements to a BSN level will help us attain some of these. As hard as the job is, many nurses are unpaid for their wealth of knowledge.

  • Jun 19 '10

    I have posted on these RN to BSN debates before.
    I have been an LVN, an RN, and now I am currently completing my BSN. All nurses have the chance to offer something fantastic to the profession. But in order to call ourselves a profession, higher education is typically warranted.
    No one will argue that in order to complete an ADN program you complete typically 4 years of school, 2 years of prereqs and general education, and then a 2 year nursing program. I have had patients/families that are continually confused by this. "Oh you only went to school two years to become a nurse" "Actually no it was four" The believe of the 2 year associate's degree confuses many, and actually makes us appear less educated than we actually are.
    We do not receive the respect we often deserve because our formal education programs seem to many to be shorter than many other programs. The other poster's mention of nursing research/etc is the biggest difference I have also seen in the RN to BSN program I am in.
    Basically, furthering education invites one to new ideas and can help with better thinking, should they take advantage of it. I don't see how it can be bad for us to have a bachelors minimum requirement. Many jobs offer tuition reimbursement or on site RN to BSN programs, the one that I am in costs about 10 grand total, my work is picking up most of the cost, had I completed it at a slower rate than the two years, I would have probably had the program completely paid.
    I find it odd that there's so much negativity to further our educations, when most of us knew that going into nursing that we would be involved in a career where things would constantly change, and we would have to learn many new skills most of our career. I can't imagine telling my child, "no, going to school more shouldn't be required, there's no advantage to it."
    There's always value in education if we take advantage of it.

  • Jun 19 '10

    I would like a BSN to be the norm, simply for professional image. However, some of the diploma nurses I work with are the best nurses. I think this may be a reflection of level of experience, though, and they tend to be the ones who have been there the longest. I guess I'm torn.

  • Jun 19 '10

    This is really concerning as I knew this before going into a nursing program as a second career student. I always heard about the shortage and how you can literally move anywhere and find a good job. But my gut told me that this wasn't the case. As I was told by a nurse, "there is not a shortage of nurses, just a shortage of nurse who remain in the field". Now, with the economy, some are going back to work as a nurse after being laid off other jobs, ie) drug rep, or spouse lost job, or just need more income in the household. So, this makes the hospitals chose anyone they want, and thus new grads are left with nothing but loans and false promises by schools to draw in more revenue to their nursing programs by continuing to say false opportunities about the profession. Plus, with the economy which is not expected to return to normal for at least another 3-4 years, if even then, as we continue to fall behind in technology advancements vs other countries, and have too many people fighting for too few good paying jobs, hosiptals will continue to run tight staffing with over worked and underpaid employees. Three years ago I was making close to 6 figures in my previous job, now after believing nursing schools and the media reports about how great it was to go into nursing, I am looking at additional loans after graduation, little job opps, and terrible salaries as a nurse that is already an underpaid field for all the learning and skills they have to acquire. I was hoping to move out of the state I live in to a different state too, now I see none of the states i am looking into moving are hiring, plus wages appear to be dropping, and if there are open positions, they only want experienced RN's. I chose to go into nursing because I liked the idea of helping others, along with the idea of a stable future, and the ability to relocate, none of which appears to be true anymore. For anyone on the fence about going into nursing, just make sure you know that facts before diving in, there is alot of misinformation being presented about the field of nursing. Truth be told!

  • Jun 19 '10

    Quote from JoanJuxtaposed
    She was just talking.... just recalling an experience, her experience in a brothel.

    Thing is, I feel for her because I'm pretty sure most people here (and people in general) would have made similar statements if they'd visited the work-place of some profession they had no experience with like she had. Like say, a fire-station where 3 or 4 of the 12 firemen you met revealed having once been male strippers. I'm sure that'd stick in most people's minds as something of interest and a little more than mere coincidence. And I'm sure that, in complete innocence, we'd probably regale whoever our audience was with that bit because, again, it was interesting. No one's trying to insult the profession when they describe it, they're just recalling what they heard first-hand.

    Seriously? If you really think that then I must say, "speak for yourself, please."

    If people seeking to become nurses didn't have the common sense not make a leap like this one before going to nursing school, they would have been taught not to do so while going through the program. I'm truly amazed that someone who is supposed to be using critical thinking skills on a daily basis can't think more critically than this.

    I'm pretty sure...no, I'm positive that most people here would NOT have made similar statements because they know better than to generalize an entire group of people the way you have described or the way Ms. Mirren did, especially a group as large as nurses.

  • Jun 19 '10

    Quote from JoanJuxtaposed
    Goodness... for a cohort who regularly demands respect, you guys sure are shameless about looking down on prostitutes and actors for their supposedly inferior lines of work. What maddening hypocrisy.
    The focus of the discussion is Ms Mirren's prejudgement about nurses and their fittingness as prostitutes, significantly women. No one is "looking down on prostitutes and actors" - this discussion is about us as nursing professionals, largely women ( I did not not hear a reference to male nurses- does she know that male RN's exist?)
    Seriously, given the volume of discussions in this and other forums about the nursing profession, countless research findings, all demonstrating the underlying problems in nursing as lack of power, poor renumeration/ reward, on-going abuse in various forms, and the inability to represent ourselves as a professional body with teeth, - these are all highlighted ongoing problems in nursing. While Hollywood seizes on this aspect of nursing as the most enticing entertainment fodder, the real tragedy is the slowly diminishing pool of nursing professionals. As we lose more members to other professions, Ms Mirren is not in any way helping, nor advocating nursing as a profession.
    If hypocrisy is the crux of this argument, it lies in the hands of the producers of the show who are surely intelligent enough to recognize a faux pas committed by Ms Mirren, along with her other earlier comments about rape. My impression is that she has been lucky enough never to need skilled nursing practitioners, has been lauded for her profession in North America and has been lucratively rewarded. She has probably never been forced to have sex for self support and has hopefully, never been raped. thus, democratic freedom of speech also promotes ignorance and hypocrisy as entertainment.
    Historically, prostitution has been a practice for thousands of years, yet, to present day, these women are usually targets, shunned or mocked in other countries or even killed, regardless of why they practice the trade, and yes, it is usually men and other women who actively participate in persecution. Ultimately, it is hypocrisy which blocks greater economic and political power for women, and perpetuates the cycle of these events.


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