Latest Comments by ikelly

ikelly 1,148 Views

Joined Mar 13, '99. Posts: 35 (0% Liked)

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    Quote from allele
    Hi everybody. I tried doing a search for this topic, but couldn't find much pertaining to my question. Does anybody here work in a hospital where something is done to curb animosity between shifts? I'm finally just tired of it. The day shift thinks nights does nothing, the evening shift thinks days only has three patients and should be able to do more, the night shift thinks the evening shift leaves too much for them to do. We've all heard these things, and I'm actually not immune. I've complained myself about other shifts. Now my goal for the next year is to NOT complain, but try to find ways to help ourselves work more as a team. What I REALLY wish we could do is have everyone walk in everyone else's shoes. Just work each shift for about a month. Of course we can't do this, but I think it would go a long way to help in understanding the obstacles that other shifts have to contend with. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd certainly appreciate it!! Thanks!
    Hi,
    I think what you may be looking for is info on horizontal violence. Lots of info on why we treat each other so poorly. Google the term horizontal violence.
    There is a great article by Caroline Hastie about the topic and suggestions on how we can avoid it. Check out http://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/hastie02.html
    I hope this helps your search.
    Ida

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    Hi,
    Agree that one of the problems may be not enough housekeeping staff, but why hire more housekeeping staff when you can get nursing staff to pick up the slack?
    I'm glad eveyone has so much time on their hands that they can do all these extra duties and still manage to take care of patients.
    As long as we continue this way it will never end.
    A dietary aid once told me she couldn't empty the trash in the patient dining area because she handled food and said she was told not to empty garbage because it might contaminate the food. We touch people ! Sooooo!!!
    Of course,everyone should help out in an emergency or a disaster but don't make it an everyday expectation.
    Nurses should do nursing care. That's why I spent all that time and hard work in school. I don't want to do the doctor's job, the administrator's job, or the housekeeper's job. Administration is responsible for providing adequate cleaning staff. If patients complain about garbage cans overflowing or dirt on the floor, let them complain to those responsible for keeping the place clean.
    It doesn't seem to phase the doctors and I don't see them grabbing the mop or taking out the trash.
    Don't do someone elses work.
    Ida

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    hi,
    question: where was your clinical instructor? what were your clinical goals and expectations for the day?? seems we haven't addressed the issue of how we are treating our nursing students.
    maybe your nursing program needs to look at where they are placing you and who is supervising you in the clinical area.
    i don't think you were over reacting. you have a valid point re: nursing duties and i hope when you graduate and look for employment you think back to your clinical experiences. your treatment as a student gives you an idea of how it would be as an employee. did you discuss this with your clinical instructor?
    what did he/she say? what about the experiences of the other students in your class? what did you learn that day besides some negative feelings about your future profession? sorry you had such a negative experience. the good thing about a forum like allnurses is that you get to see many different points of view.
    you will eventually choose where you work and how you will be treated.
    ida

    originally posted by allsmiles
    do rns perform housekeeping duties where you work?

    i got the shock of my life this week during clinicals. i escorted a female patient to the shower. after i helped the patient with the shower and returned her to her room, i proceeded to my next assigned patient.

    my supervising co-nurse stopped me, and told me that i needed to clean the shower. she then walked me down the hall to the housekeeping closet and pointed out the correct bottle of disinfectant i needed to use. she then informed me of the written procedures for cleaning the shower [spray disinfectant on the walls, floors, etc. any surface that the patient may have come in contact with; wait a certain amount of time; then return and rinse the entire shower area down].

    i am not a prima donna by any stretch of the imagination , but i naively thought that housekeeping did facility cleaning in the hospital.

    well, i remained calm, and sprayed the shower down, but luckily by the time i returned to finish, housekeeping had already finished cleaning the shower.

    so, my question to you is this:

    are you required to do housekeeping tasks in your workplace?

    was this just a power play by the co-nurse to humble the newbie?

    am i just over-reacting?

    all comments and opinions welcome! thanks! :kiss

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    Hello to all,
    Enrty into practice has been a hot issue for a long time.
    Applied to my community college for the nursing program in 1974. Took a year of liberal arts and science courses before I was admitted to "experimental" program. There were 2 programs offered. I was 30 years old with 2 teenage boys and had to prove myself before being admitted to the program. Others in the program were retired cops, teachers, firemen and older students. The traditional students, right out of high school were offered the traditional program. There was open admission and free tuition at that time. I took advantage of the opportunity.Most of us thought this would be our terminal degree. My A.D. program was rough.
    Miss 2 days of clinical and you are out of the program. We had to do bed making. If we failed, our corners weren't perfect ,we only had 2 chances, we were out of the program. We wore caps and the bobby pins had to be white. Without the white bobby pins you were sent home. Very oppressive environment but we managed to do well, honed our clinical skills and passed the boards with flying colors.
    At that same time the entry into practice reared it's ugy head. I, along with my fellow students and professors protested and marched to City university administrative headquarters. I had 2 kids to support and didn't think I would be able to afford the BSN. Looking for perspective employment in NYC convinced me to go for my BSN. NY City was not hiring very many ADN grads but the ADN allowed me to work as a competent nurse and see what the difference was between the 2 degrees. Went to City College for my BSN and felt my education became more well rounded. At City the focus was not on making beds and the instructors were more like peers. No starched caps.The uniform consisted of blue slacks, white shell and blue blazer. Community focus as well as hospital experience. We made home visits to SRO's in pairs because of the potential danger in the SRO's The learning atmosphere was different. Learned about social and political issues affecting the practice of nursing. Learned about critical thinking skills. Had to take organic chemistry, 1 year of physics, chose honors history as an elective and bioengineering and ecology as an electives.
    Because I had good clinical skills from my AD program I was always paired with a generic BSN student. We helped each other.
    Did the BSN in 2 years and felt it was worth it. Did some private duty on the side. The going rate was $65.00 for an 8 hour case and $90.00 for 12 hours in the ICU. Started staff nursing in neurosurgery 1979 at a major NY hospital. A year later I transferred to psych and have been there since. I was lucky that I chose the City College System because it was affordable.
    There is a place for everyone in nursing. I see both sides of the argument. Not everyone can take 4-5 years out of their life for school , especially those with children. My good friend watched my 2 sons while I was in school and I watched her 3 sons and 1 daughter on the weekends so she and her husband could get out of the house. One needs a support system when in school and working.
    After working for 20 years and realizing I needed more education to keep up with all the changes in nursing I went back to Hunter College for my MSN in psych nursing and just passes the ANCC certification for Adult Clinical Specialist. I will remain a staff nurse because I love direct patient care. Since I received my MSN I have had the oportunity to teach, become involved with research utilization, outcomes evaluation, and design new group protocols for my unit. I have a very supportive nurse manager and very supportive director of nursing. Education is valued where I work and there is tuition reimbursement.Nurses receive more pay for advanced degrees and for certification.
    Education is never a loss. Nurses need to keep current. New medications and treatment modalities are changing all the time.
    Hospitals need to provide opportunities to nurses either by distance ed, or bringing the class room to the hospital.
    No one will get rid of the community colleges. They are financed by the states and are needed by those of us who have to start out at the ADN level because of financial or family obligations.
    I agree that some of the best nurses come from the diploma and ADN programs. Nurses are life time learners and should have viable options if they wish to continue education.
    For me it has opened many new doors and opportunities. It has helped me provide more creative care and given me the opportunity to work with other disciplines and mentor other nurses.
    The original purpose for the ADN program in the 1950's was to educate nurses in a shoter period of time
    to care for people during a nursing shortage. There is now more interest in the ADN programs now that we face another nursing shortage? Is it really a shortage? Or have nurses dropped out of nursing because it is too difficult, not enough support staff, not enough support from administration? The media portrayal of the nurse is not helpful in recruiting new nurses either.
    This debate will continue. No matter what side you are on,you need to get involved in the politics so you can make your voices heard. The states control the monies for the community colleges. Find out who holds the purse strings and voice your opinion as a voter to him/her.
    Good luck to all.
    Ida
    It's great to debate here but the changes will come from those in political power. Please excuse typos.

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    Please excuse the typos in my previous post.
    Ida

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    Hi Marie,
    Best of luck on your nursing career.
    You will have worked long and hard to accomplish your goals. Remeber that as an LPN or an RN you are accountable for your nursing practice. Time spent away from nursing duties and patient care can compromise the license that you will have worked so hard for.
    Your State Board of Nursing will not care if something happens to one of the patients in your care and were doing housekeeping duties instead of nursing. You are accountable for nursing care.
    Your posts show that you are a kind and caring person.
    Take care of yourself and let support services do their job.
    If we continue to do non-nursing tasks management will not hire more support staff.
    Once you have that professional license you will see the difference in your responsibilities and all that is expected of you as a nurse.
    The only housekeeping duties I do are at home.
    Our housekeeping staff does not give out meds, assess patients, take vital signs etc. They perform a very important job keeping the place clean and disinfected. Nurses shouldn't be doing housekeeping duties.
    CNA's as part of the nursing staff should not be doing housekeeping duties either.
    I don't see social workers, MD's, administrators cleaning the units.
    I think it starts at top management and how nursing is viewed as a profession. If we don't value ourselves and our many years of education and levels of responsibility, why should anyone else value us?
    Things have gotten out of hand since restructuring and re-engineering the health care system. Increased patient load, increased acuity level and less support staff. I assume there is no union for nurses where you work or in your state.
    I have always worked in N.Y. state and have been a member of NYSNA so I'm sure that makes a difference.
    We need to get away from doing everyone elses jobs and concentrate and why we are here---to provide safe, competent nursing care.
    Best wishes,
    Ida

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    Originally posted by Stitchie
    I just came across this post as I was searching for someone else having gone through a similar experience, and as always, i've found someone!

    On my unit, one of my supposed "friends" recently became the latest charge nurse, and then proceeded to stab me in the back. I've been on this unit for the 6 longest months I've ever known and I'm not the person I was when i started there. Now that i've read about HV there's perhaps some of this going on.

    I really love nursing, but I've chosen a unit with massive disorganization, no supplies, teamwork, camraderie (unless you're part of the "clique"; that's so not me!) and real lack of leadership that it's just not worth the fight anymore. my manager is one who shows blatant favoritism towards BSN grads (no offense) and it's nauseating.

    I have an ADN and a political science degree BA that I don't talk about much, so now I'm considering doing something besides bedside nursing. I love the work I do, but the negative vibe and nasty people make me want to barf. I gave my notice to my beoatch of a manager last Tuesday and am counting the days -- of course, it'll be agony for the next 10 days, right?

    Good luck to you. You are SO not alone!
    Hi,
    If you love nursing why not think about looking into accelerated MSN programs? With a BA and your ADN and RN you can apply to
    an accelerated program. Don't know what's available in your state
    but it would be a shame for you to leave nursing.
    Have you worked on other units? If you've read the other posts you have a good idea about the dynamics of HV. Rise above it.
    Use what you have learned as a political science major and be proud of it. You have a lot to offer.
    Good luck.
    Ida

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    Originally posted by Julielpn
    Thanks Ida~
    This is only the tip of the iceberg that I have found. Once, I even found an entire page of my nurses notes in the trash....
    But that's neither here nor there anymore.
    Yes, through it all, I have remained on this same unit. I have 5 children at home who need to eat! LOL! And nursing jobs aren't that easy to come by here in my little ol' town!
    I try to teach new nurses who come and always give them my home phone and cell number in case something happens when I am not there (Lord knows, the DON doesn't answer her phone!) and I have had a nurse call me in the middle of the night once to ask about a patient. But that's ok with me.
    My God-given ministry is to be a nurse, and I am discovering daily what that entails more and more. If I can help a new nurse feel more welcome in this profession, then I will do what I can.
    I love being a nurse and cannot ever imagine doing anything else!
    I am afraid I may have to go elsewhere now because I am returning to school next month, and the nurse who is doing the scheduling is the very same one who has done most of the sabotaging to me.....
    But that's ok. I know I'll be a good nurse wherever I go, and wherever I work.
    Thanks for your support!

    Merry Christmas to you!
    Hugs~
    Julie:kiss
    Hi Julie,
    You are doing what we all should be doing. You are a wonderful role model for new nurses. It seems like the experience has made you stronger. Good luck with school. It must rough with the job and taking care of 5 kids. I hope something better comes along. Have you thought about working weekends so you could get the same days off for school? I did it for years but my sons were grown and not at home. Also keep documenting any time someone does anything to sabotage you. Keep looking for that good job. You have a lot to offer.
    Good luck.
    Ida

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    Originally posted by Sarah Kat
    Well here's some more. Thanks!

    Also, it saddens me, but I think HV is a phenomena that is taking over every walk of life. I see it almost everywhere I look. I guess it seems like a natural reaction to all that is going on in the world today... <SIGH>
    You're welcome !
    Bullying has been around forever. We're more aware of it because of the media. We're part of an international community now rather than just a small part of the world.
    Besides all the domestic violence that goes on, children are exposed to so much violence in the media. We see actual killing in the news. Reporters are embedded with the troops so we sit at home and watch the war. Kids watch the new and more violent wrestling. A boy is in jail in Florida because he was imitating something he saw on wrestling and killed another child.People are becoming de-sensitized to real life violence and chances ae they will be less likely to take action on behalf of the victim. Viewing violence also decreases inhibitions towards aggression.
    Some thoughts re: violence in society and violence against women
    A. Bandura-social psychologist -social learning theory-research on obervational learning and modeling is very interesting stuff.
    We idolize sports heroes-->positive rewards for violent behavior=
    high salaries and adoration of the fans.
    Kids idolize and imitate the clothing styles and language the "gangsta" rappers.
    Feminist family therapists Carter & McGoldrick--children learn to value people/ relationships at home. Increase in domestic violence colors the way a child may relate to others later in life.
    A. Burgess's book: Violence Through A Forensic Lens - a great book with case studies and profiles of criminal behavior. She's an expert in forensic nursing and talks about early attachmment disturbances and failed social bonding and crimes against women
    and children.
    Workplace violence includes all of the above and when you decrease services for the mentally ill and substance abusers decrease staffing levels,tolerate bad behavior, turn people away for lack of insurance, tolerate and sometimes encourage horizontal violence you have an explosive environment.
    What's the answer? I wish I knew. Zero tolerance for violence at home and at work is a start. Forgive me for rambling on.
    Ida

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    Hi Julie,
    Sorry to hear about your terrible experience.
    I've been a nurse since 1977 and your experience was the most blatant act of bullying that I have heard about. I've seen covert acts and nurses just not helping new nurses, gossiping, etc.
    Did you stay on that unit? How do you respond to new nurses now that you are an experienced nurse? Just wondering how that experience changed you. Sounds like you've got it together now. Good luck.
    Ida

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    Hi Vicky,
    There's a good article on HV written by an Australian nurse midwife. The U.K. and Australia seem way ahead of us in writing about this issue.
    Check out Horizontal violence in the workplace by Caroline Hastie.
    She has links to other articles too.
    The URL is:
    http://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/hastie02.html
    The article describes HV as not a symptom of individual pathology
    alone, but a symptom of a society that condones aggression, and is a result of the dynamics of oppression and powerlessness.
    I have other online articles and when I locate them I'll share them.
    Caroline's article defines the problem and gives strategies for personal action.
    It's sad that this happens in nursing school but remember that HV is bullying and that starts way before people get to nursing school.
    Good luck on teaching a course on HV. There's not much in the texts now, but it's a hot topic.
    Thanks for the compliment on my post. A little positive feedback is good for the soul.
    Ida

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    Originally posted by ikelly
    Hi,
    Have you heard of horizontal violence? Sometimes referred to as nurses eating their young. It's a form of negative behavior that decreases morale and prevents us from uniting and achieving professional power.It happens alot in nursing. Maybe not to the degree that you experienced it.
    In the 1970's Friere,a South American educator, described horizontal violence as behavior of oppressed people in third world countries who coped with powerlessness by displacing negative emotions on each other rather than on the dominant social group. His work, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, is a classic.
    Our self image and public image is many times defined by stereotype. There is elitism within nursing. Many times nurses in power identify with the dominant social group/medicine and not with nursing. Nurses are at times subjected to HV by negative portrayals in the media.
    It's upsetting when people ask, "Why didn't you go to med school", or "what's a masters degree in nursing???" I've been asked if I needed to go to college to become a nurse? Or remarks like,
    "All you have to do is follow doctor's orders". I use these opportunities to try and educate.
    Every time we belittle another nurse or not offer assistance to a new nurse we are perpetuating HV.
    Nursing and issues of power are hot topics.
    Good luck on your next job search. When you take a tour of a unit watch the body language of the staff. Are they welcoming?
    Do they look uptight, unfriendly? Ask about continuing ed., inservice education, preceptors.
    A google search of : horizontal violence is informative. Nursing Spectrum online also has a few good articles.
    Ida
    The above post addressed especially to "unhappy nurse". I hope things work out for you.

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    Hi,
    Have you heard of horizontal violence? Sometimes referred to as nurses eating their young. It's a form of negative behavior that decreases morale and prevents us from uniting and achieving professional power.It happens alot in nursing. Maybe not to the degree that you experienced it.
    In the 1970's Friere,a South American educator, described horizontal violence as behavior of oppressed people in third world countries who coped with powerlessness by displacing negative emotions on each other rather than on the dominant social group. His work, Pedagogy of the Oppressed, is a classic.
    Our self image and public image is many times defined by stereotype. There is elitism within nursing. Many times nurses in power identify with the dominant social group/medicine and not with nursing. Nurses are at times subjected to HV by negative portrayals in the media.
    It's upsetting when people ask, "Why didn't you go to med school", or "what's a masters degree in nursing???" I've been asked if I needed to go to college to become a nurse? Or remarks like,
    "All you have to do is follow doctor's orders". I use these opportunities to try and educate.
    Every time we belittle another nurse or not offer assistance to a new nurse we are perpetuating HV.
    Nursing and issues of power are hot topics.
    Good luck on your next job search. When you take a tour of a unit watch the body language of the staff. Are they welcoming?
    Do they look uptight, unfriendly? Ask about continuing ed., inservice education, preceptors.
    A google search of : horizontal violence is informative. Nursing Spectrum online also has a few good articles.
    Ida

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    Originally posted by mother/babyRN
    Actually, back then it was made light of....People even thought it was funny. Others thought it was sad and even horrible. Nothing was ever officially done, and charges were dismissed....
    That was in the mid eighties when I was much younger and had no idea that I could fight things in a more agressive way...
    Now I would definitely go forward further...Thankyou for your concern, and yes, I did seek counselling, which helped tremendously only long after the fact....I was both frightened AND angry ( not as much at the people involoved in the actual incident, but the people charged supposedly with protecting and supporting me..) Back then it was often considered a routine hazard of the job..Thankfully, we have come forward since then....
    Hi,
    I agree that the people you expect to support you are sometimes not there. It really hurts when people make light of it. I'm glad things are better. There's lots of info on workplace violence and violence against nurses on the internet.
    Google search: icn violence --brings up the International Council of Nurses fact sheet, World Health Organization, and other sites concerning violence against health care workers.
    How are things handeled now? I think we all realize that this is a very violent society. Violence at home, violence in the media desensitizes people to actual violence in the workplace.
    There is some research on nurses attitudes toward victims of violence. Maybe those people who thought it was no big deal are getting abused at home so for them it may have been an everyday occurance. Others just can't identify with the victim-it's too frightening.
    Our personal safety should always be our # 1 priority. Of course, we are here to care for patients but we can't work in fear.
    After a nasty assault on our psych unit I asked my manager if I could present some of the literature on predicting and preventing violence against health care workers. I had participated in a research utilization project in school and was willing to share.
    I presented at staff meetings and volunteered for committees at work. Managed to present at nursing grand rounds and was able to get administration on my side. I was asked to teach the psych staff about cues to impending violence and verbal de-escalation techniques. I was sent to Crisis Prevention Institute(CPI) for certification as a Nonviolent Crisis Intervention Trainer.
    I teach one day a week and the other 4 days I work as a staff nurse on an acute care psych unit. I have been lucky because I have a really great nurse manager and a really terrific director who is behind this all the way.
    People are now becoming safety advocates. We've even been able to have some changes made on the physical structure of the unit. I complained for many years but when I actually came up with some kind of a solution to the problem, people listened.
    We stil have a way to go but we're making progress.
    Take care and stay safe,
    Ida

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    Originally posted by mother/babyRN
    Security in most of the hospitals I have worked in, with the exception of the larger hospitals, which on occasion have a police officer there, are all well and good, but one place that even security and the police HATE to come to, is maternity and/or pedi..Tensions are often high with domestic situations...I have been beat up in delivery , smacked around by a rival family member who was not included ( biological father to the baby to be born) when I confronted him regarding the restraining order that was in effect. Security wasn't there even though they had been asked to attend, and came only when accompanied by the police who were eventually called. Good thing this guy wasn't in the mood to kill people.....But after all, maternity is a HAPPY place !
    Hi,
    Wondering if you pressed charges against the visitor who assaulted you? I hope so. What was the outcome of the incident?
    Were you offered any help after the assault? I am involved in workplace violence issues at my hospital and teach nonviolent crisis intervention. You say you were beaten up and smacked around? What is the hospital doing to prevent other incidents?
    Why did you have to confront the visitor re: a restraining order?
    That is so dangerous. Sorry to hear about your experiences.
    I hope things have improved.
    Ida


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