Latest Comments by marineRN

marineRN 1,210 Views

Joined Feb 2, '06. Posts: 18 (28% Liked) Likes: 5

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    No... the MAN degree used to be called the MRS degree. I thought that was what most females went to college for? j/k

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    I do not personally understand why anyone would want to go through the CNS without doing the NP. It appears to be essentially the same classes without the clinical hours, but then your job opportunities are limited.

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    There are several. U of Va is one, but if you google "post msn PMHNP certificate" there are many that essentially contain the core classes (that I already have from FNP) then some assortment of clinicals/practicum/preceptorship.

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    Thanks for the reply. I will finish my FNP in 2012. I have a couple of friends who are opening (this month) a 90 day treatment facility which I am helping with. The medical director is a prominent psychiatrist. The goal is eventually to open a couple more for different populations in the upcoming years. Anyways, I was looking at going back to get PMHNP postgrad certificate but all it would consist of is clinical hours and preceptorship. So essentially I would be paying for OJT, which I would already be able to get from the Psychiatrist. It doesnt make sense to me. Thanks again for the reply.

    -MarineRN

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    And the real reason why it will change is because the "old guard" of nursing education and academic administrators will NEVER advocate for less education, and as it has already started to change they will be falling over themselves to follow suit as they believe it will increase their prestige and money.

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    That is true, but as more schools start switching others will follow suit. It is inevitable. Then we will end up like Med, Pharm, Dentistry, Podiatry etc...as it should be. PhD will be a component of advancing the practice of nursing, but the clinical degree (DnP) will be the required degree to be a prof.

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    Okay.....I already know what the reaction of PMHNPs will be. But after looking at the scope of practice of an FNP there is nothing banning FNPs from working in a mental health setting only vice versa. Anyone know for sure?

    MarineRN

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    You underestimate the pull of the AACN, hospitals dont HAVE to be JCAHO accreditation....does not make them any less powerful. And yes....nursing is different than nontechnical degrees where the PhD is the highest degree. Just as in Law, Med, Divinity. Some profs have a PhD but not all. The degree that is required to be a prof is the Md, Jd, Div etc....not the PhD. PhD means you are trained in RESEARCH not TEACHING. Now I stipulated that if the entry to NP does become DNP only it will largely phaze out PhD instructors in those programs, if it changes then that may not be the case. Now about tenure.....as it changes for the larger academic world it will effect tenure of DnP profs b/c it will effect all profs, and it should be changed as it has largely created an environment of liberal profs who can sit on their laurels and spew their ideology immune from everything as opposed to fostering "academic freedom" as it was intended.

    Blessings,

    MarineRN

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    also......

    how can we justify efforts to develop the dnp when we have an acute faculty shortage? should we focus on increasing faculty salaries rather than the dnp?

    nursing cannot continue to have large numbers of faculty in full-time academic positions without doctorates. one of the frustrating aspects in today's world of academic nursing is the fact that we have been so slow in moving this agenda forward. nursing permits a culture which is accepting of limited educational credentials in a variety of settings. in universities it is increasingly difficult to develop the kind of clinical scholarship and maintain the kind of credibility necessary for first rate programs without a higher level of education among our faculty. the faculty shortage is compounded by the fact that salaries in the academic setting have not kept pace with the service setting. we cannot expect improved salaries until we improve the educational level. the dnp will foster a more highly educated faculty workforce.

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    ybq2008 likes this.

    Taken directly from www.aacn.nche.edu:

    1. Who will teach DNP students since the role is considered advanced practice?


      Many of those who currently teach in advanced practice programs will be involved in teaching DNP students, particularly at the beginning level. There will be components of the DNP which will demand doctorally prepared faculty. As programs move forward with development, arrangements will have to be made for joint appointments or articulation agreements. Master's-prepared faculty teaching in APRN programs will have the option to complete the DNP, enhancing their standing within the university and increasing the number of faculty qualified to teach in the DNP program.

    2. What about the opportunity for tenure and promotion for faculty with a DNP?

      Though primarily an institutional decision, AACN is confident that a DNP faculty member will compete favorably with other practice doctorates in tenure and promotion decisions, as is the case in law, education, audiology, physical therapy, pharmacy, criminal justice, public policy and administration, public health, and other disciplines. AACN data from 2009 show that doctoral students who also teach are just as likely to have a DNP as a PhD. This indicates that graduates of both types of doctoral programs are finding teaching positions.

    3. How will DNP graduates be prepared to assume the nurse educator role?

      Though a doctorate is the appropriate degree for a faculty role, the DNP program is not designed to prepare educators per se, any more than a PhD does. Graduates from all doctoral programs (PhD or DNP) who wish to be educators should have additional preparation that adds pedagogical skills to their base of clinical practice.
    And lets face it the AACN is the one calling the shots as they are the one who credentials....they will be professors and they will be elligible for tenure...no ifs ands or buts about it.

    ~MarineRN

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    Right....but what other people have stated is that those with DNPs will not be allowed to earn tenure. I know that not all get it....what I am saying is that they will eventually have to give it to them unless they are going to have a whole department of faculty inelligible for tenure. At which point all they (DNPs) will have to do is get together and say that they must afford them the same opportunities as the rest (simple supply and demand). What other option will they have? I think it is silly that they are going to make all NPs/CRNAs be degreed on the doctoral level, but after doing so they will be forced to use them as faculty for the same programs b/c in short order there will be no NPs with PhDs. Not to mention, with the shortage of faculty in the forseeable future they will be in little position to snear at any doctoral prepared nurse who so wishes to earn 50k at their institution of higher learning.

    ~MarineRN

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    Thats not correct???? It is my understanding that it has already been decreed by the nursing gods. I know that the programs where I live (DFW) have it set where it is changing at that point. Am I misinformed on this?

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    But if you stop and think about it.....there is NO other choice. In 2015 ALL NPs will be graduating on the Doctoral level. One must be an NP to teach NPs. Previously there was another option.......MSN NPs with a PhD in something else. Now the entry level NP will be doctoral. I do not know about you, but I highly doubt there are too many who are going to go for a PhD after getting a DNP. So after 10 to 20 years when the PhDs are retiring they will be FORCED to have DNPs as full fledge faculty. What other option is there? They(academic administrators) will leave themselves with NO other option. All of the DNPs will only have to get together and say we are NOT going to get a PhD and you WILL give us tenure. What option are they going to have?????? Have PhDs who are not advance practice nurses teaching? Can you imagine if in Med school(A clinical degree) they had PhDs teaching and not MDs??? Like I said, regardless of what they say now they are going to make it where they have NO choice by demanding all NPs to be DNPs....HAHAHAHHA!!! I do not know how they will be able to avoid it.

    ~MarineRN

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    I am currently in an FNP and plan on going for DNP when finished. I believe that the natural transition will be for DNPs to work as professors in their chosen fields. Any other option is not rational. Who teaches MDs? other MDs not PhDs. With a DNP becoming mandatory by 2015, eventually NPs with PhDs will eventually fade out. Who will go for a DNP then a PhD to teach? PhDs should teach the theory and research classes but the clinical classes should be taught by DNPs, any other argument will only made done by those with PhDs who are protecting their turf.

    MarineRN

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