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Pushing The Limit For $



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No. 10
from disney158
Old Dec 18, 2008, 08:02 AM

Exclamation Re: Pushing The Limit For $
I really feel comfortable that when I sign on R2B I sign that the MDs is complete, not that it is correect, I will not sign for the sections that I feel are inerror, as I said, I am siging R2B, and the way I read it , that is only indicating the MDs is complete, this particular orgainization has been purchsed by a new owner and the $ stretching is not going away...here in NYS, the reimbursement has also changed for MEdicaid from a PRI to the MDs, and now at this particular place, we have lived thru inservices oto the CNA's on how to "document", of course the push is to document the maximum assistnace the cna gave at all times, once again, not illegal, just shy of it in my words, but all of the administrative people, feel this is totally appropriate and within all of CMS guidelines, we were just never getting paid the "right" way for all of our hard work before, so if a CNA provided hands on 1 time in an ADL activity, they are being told to put down assist of 1 for any minute weight bearing act, and even for those folks who eat, in the main dinning room, there is a nurse in there for all meals, just in case they are needed, and the folks are served resturant style, everyone is being ut down at least for supervision in eating, even if they are independent walkie talkies and can go into a returant and order a meal, becuase they are being "supervised" ...once again, I am arguing they are supervised because that is how we wet up the dining experinece, not becuase it is needed, HELP ME !!! So frustrated I can not spell right
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No. 11
Old Dec 18, 2008, 09:37 AM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
Originally Posted by KristenLPN View Post
I am in Illinois, who is going under what is called Medicaid Audits. If your facility gets paid thru medicaid, be leary over too many "early assessments" as this will send a red flag to them and guaranteed they will make a visit to your home. My facility went thru a "mock" audit, and that was bad enough. As for the administration ordeal, it is not going to matter if you make him sign the assessment or not, your signature is on it as well. As a matter of fact, I believe that all department heads sign the assessment stating that all information is true and correct. You are signing it as being the person completing the information. It is your responsibility in the end, no matter who comes in and "audits" you. Unfortunately, since you went to the chain of command and it did not work for you, you may have to make other arrangements of whom to talk to. In the end, it is your license on the line.
I was under the impression that the MDS Coordinator signs only that the MDS is complete. The person who fills out their area of discipline is who is signing responsibility for the accuracy. Right?
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No. 12
from disney158
Old Dec 18, 2008, 09:40 AM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
That is my take on the subjecct, and thank god ,
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No. 13
from ocdmds
Old Jun 16, 2009, 02:02 PM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
Thanks to the original poster, I had this exact same question. Just took a job at a new facility and they typically skill someone even after therapy has stopped until the day the OMRA is due and then cut them if there is no “decline”. This makes me nervous because in my previous job once they were cut from therapy and nothing “nursing” was going on, we cut them from part A.
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No. 14
from miccay
Old Jun 19, 2009, 11:40 AM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
I was being pushed also to do "off cycle" quarterlies to capture a better RUG for case mix. I was very hesitant to do this, but I called my state MDS coordinator and explained it to her and asked her opinion. She said there is nothing in the RAI manual that says you can not do that, and in fact, most facilities are doing this, but too many does raise a flag. I believe one day this loop hole will be closed, but for right now, it is open to jump through.
As for the medicare questions, refer to Chapter 8 in the Medicare Benefit Policy Manual. You should not be skilling people that are not in a skillable RUG category. When therapy ends, we monitor that resident for 7 days, then if there is anything nursing wise to skill for, of course, an OMRA is completed. If not, they come off of medicare.
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No. 15
from disney158
Old Jun 19, 2009, 12:11 PM

Heart Broken Re: Pushing The Limit For $
Yes, I have also joined that "crowd" the facility is so going for the big $" that I am doing extra Quartely's on every applicable state resident to up the score for Case Mix, ... and to top it off isn't it a miracle that these peopla are all of a sudden getting Restorative Therapy and it just happens to be during a lookback period, it's a MIRACLE.... I can not imagine that the Dept of Health?CMA?State who ever, is going to allow this... I really feel this is not right... and my stance, if it ever comes up , will be I was told to scedule and assessments, I did, I completed it correctly based on the manual, I am glad I am not the OT or PT providing the therapy, because I would really have a hard time justifying this practice, even if "everyone else is doing it", I am not putting anything false or incorrect in the MDS to bump up the score. I am actually at 2 different compainies, one is so very reasonable and doing the right thing, the other is just all for the $, and this is horrible. AT this "other organization" I am no longer doing MDS to improve the lives of my patients, I am now completing MDS for a "for profit organization" to gleam every last penny, even if it takes me hours to get that PC1 to be a PC2 and have the RUG score jump up by .02... and it makes me sick.....and heartbroken, I did not become an RN to do this....
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No. 16
from edhcinc
Old Jun 19, 2009, 01:52 PM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
Hi--a few questions--and a comment...
  1. If you do "extra" quarterlies, does that also mean "extra" care planning sessions in "sync" with the quarterlies? Or does the care plan session remain quarterly?
  2. Does your software allow you to enter "extra" quarterlies (so you might do 6 instead of 3?) Or just do early quarterlies?
  3. If you do "extra" (or early) quarterlies, does this also mean "extra" (or early) annual/comprehensives? Therefore, also "extra" (or early) RAPs/CP sessions?
  4. If you do "extra" or early MDS, do your compamy policies allow you to do so? Or do the policies state that your will comply with the OBRA and/or PPS schedules?
IF you do "extra" or early MDS, this means alot more work for the whole team. Has management or "corporate" "costed out" this extra expense? Time = $$$. More paper = $$$. If this new RUG raises the rate by $5/day, is $150 worth it? Resources expended are far > $150!!!

IF the MDS and CP do not "sync", we have defeated the purpose of each--$$$ wins!
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No. 17
from disney158
Old Jun 19, 2009, 02:07 PM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
I am all in agreement with the extra $ spent for the staff to do the work, but since we are salaried, we are expected just to get the job done, so , the facility believes they will win more $ in the long run pushing the slave/salaried mds workers get the job done and hunt and peck out those RUG's, can you tell, yes I am annoyed at this practice !!! And no, they do not cange the meeting schedule nor the annaul, they are just extra quarterly's, and no , there is no policy and procedure for this.....
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No. 18
Old Jul 30, 2009, 08:01 PM

Default Re: Pushing The Limit For $
This is new to our facility, not really to sure of what to expect ( living in New York probably will never be sure ). We ran the gammot of reimbursment " updates" as referred to in many of your comments. It seems like walking a very unsteady tight rope between meeting DOH regulations for survey and ensuring accuracy in RUGS for reimbursement - if RUGS increase too quickly or too high that triggers sig. changes and red flags for the DOH as to why the rapid decline. I find I am questioning the sensibilities of climbing the perverbial " ladder" more often now - wishing I was back to being a staff nurse or even a CNA again - where my heart lies - actual hands on care good old fashioned nursing!
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No. 19
from disney158
Old Jul 31, 2009, 09:42 AM

Heart Broken Re: Pushing The Limit For $
You are so right and this whole thing is heart breaking. Now into the second attempt at the case mix upload for NYS reimbursement, I find that my MDS role seems to no longer be to get the best patient outcome but to get the best fiscial outcome. I am no longer a nurse during these "capture periods", but a number cruncher, and I am heartbroken and frustrated as I have loved doing MDs in the past and explaining how the whole process works from getting someone in the door to MDS creation to care planning for the best patient care possible, now my whole role is focused on eeking out that last little bit of 0.02 to a RUG score. The interesting thing is that in one facility I am part time and they are the ones really pushing , pushing, and in my full time job, this is not happening. Amazing how one corportion is really smart and one is really pushing the limits
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