Why do so many people insist that LPN'S AREN'T REAL NURSES!!?? - page 9

I mean, the title does have "Nurse" in it.So why are so many people insisting that LPN's arent real nurses? When I go to the hospital, I see these people giving medication , care, comfort and other... Read More

  1. by   Laurie Kay
    As a nurse who was an LPN for 18 years, I have seen the trends go back and forth on the pendulumn. The whole "phasing out" of LPN's was in full swing when I became one in 1988. it never happened. In fact we now have 2 or 3 LPN schools in town, and they work everywhere. As for Lpn's bieng "bedside nurses", are we not all that when it comes down to it? Did we all start out any different? I chose to go on and get RN licensure because I could see that I was critically thinking beyond what my charge nurses were. Then one night I had a client ask for something for "heartburn". There would have been absolutley no issue in calling the doctor, as he is good to deal with and the clients personal friend. The charge nurse said to me, "if she wants maalox she can wheel herself down the road and get it herself." I was so angry, I shoved my med cart and vowed that day that would go on to school.
    I work with some the best LPN's you could imagine.
    Within the LPN and RN ranks there are some I would never want to touch me in a medical setting. I have to say there are more RN's in that than LPN's. We all work with them and know who they are.
    LPN's are awesome. The amount of hours in school that they put in are comparable to what and ADN grad does, as they go to school every day in my state from 8-4 for 18 months unless they are in clinicals which they put in an 8 hour day. Their schooling is just geared differently. As someone who has done both, I can say that RN's go into a more depth as well as have more leadership training. for RN's & LPN's let us unite!
    !! :icon_hug:This is just my .
    ~~Laurie~~
  2. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from sayitgirl
    It is not a matter of opinion, LPN's are ancillary staff.
    You might as well say that all nurses are ancillary staff, LPNs and RNs included. Here's my reasoning.

    Nurses tend to be the least-educated professionals in the hospital setting. Do you, the RN with the associates degree, actually believe you're a true 'colleague' with the physical therapists, doctors, occupational therapists, finance people, and lab analysts? The physical therapists and occupational therapists have master's degrees and some even have doctorates. The average physician has 12 to 15 years of post-secondary education. The finance workers have a minimum of a B.A. in business or finance. Lab analysts usually have B.S. degrees in biology, chemistry, microbiology, or some other challenging science major.

    If people used my fallacious reasoning, then you would be lumped in with the rest of the 'lowly' ancillary staff due to your lack of education. Please get off your high horse.

    I'm yawning. This is becoming tiring.
  3. by   Jabramac
    I love and highly respect the LPN's that work at my hospital. I feel some regret for them that they work just as hard as the RN's on the same floor, have years and years of experience, and get payed less. When the more marute LPN's come ask little wet behind the ears me to do a task LPN's can't do at our facility I feel like it isn't fair there isn't an easier way to combine years of clinical experience to advance to higher titles. I know where I live there are waiting lists for RN programs, and waiting lists for LPN to RN programs, but I think LPN programs are a lot easier to get into. The trouble is, the LPN prereqs here do not always transfer over to RN schools and many an LPN has had to retake courses because they would not transfer.
  4. by   lindarn
    Quote from TheCommuter
    You might as well say that all nurses are ancillary staff, LPNs and RNs included. Here's my reasoning.

    Nurses tend to be the least-educated professionals in the hospital setting. Do you, the RN with the associates degree, actually believe you're a true 'colleague' with the physical therapists, doctors, occupational therapists, finance people, and lab analysts? The physical therapists and occupational therapists have master's degrees and some even have doctorates. The average physician has 12 to 15 years of post-secondary education. The finance workers have a minimum of a B.A. in business or finance. Lab analysts usually have B.S. degrees in biology, chemistry, microbiology, or some other challenging science major.

    If people used my fallacious reasoning, then you would be lumped in with the rest of the 'lowly' ancillary staff due to your lack of education. Please get off your high horse.

    I'm yawning. This is becoming tiring.

    That is exactly the reason that the entry into pratice should be a BSN, and phase out, and grandfather in, all ADN and Diploma grads. Nursing is the welfare of the health care professsionals. We are paid, and treated as such. No surprise there. There are those of us who started out as Diploma grads, and saw the light within months after graduation. And went back to school and earned a BSN. I did it the hard way, working fulltime, and going to school for 6 years to earn my BSN. Now, you can go to school on line, in RN to BSN completer programs.

    With no reward for my educational efforts at the bedside, I left and started my own business. When I am rewarded for my education, I will return to bedside nursing.

    I have heard nothing but "sob stories", about all of those nurses who wouldn't have been able to become nurses if it weren't for ADN programs. Now hear this- there is a glut of nurses (500,000 not working in nursing- not counting the foreign nurses, who are being brought here to combat the "nursing shortage"), and that is causing salary depression all over the country. When I hear about the "tremendous nursing shortage in so and so state", I look at the pay,working conditions, and lack of respect, and, no surprise.

    BSN as entry into practice would cut the number of individuals coming out of school, and by the law of supply and demand, salaries would go up. Just like PTs, OTs, pharmacists, etc. A hospital here in Yakima is ofering sign on bonuses of $20,000 for PTs.When was the last time you saw a substantial bonus for nurses, where the pay and working conditions weren't the pits?

    We do not need to continue to confuse the public any further, with different "flavors" of nurses. We continue to confuse the public, and everyone else, and we wonder why there is an identity crisis in nursing.
    Hospitals continue to encourage this confusion, and work it for all it's worth.

    They love that nursing is split. And they are the ones who keep telling us, "you don't need to go back and become and RN. or BSN". And refuse to pay nurses more for higher education, and certifications. They are laughing at us, all the way to the bank. It is financial security for them and the insurance companies. And nurses just don't get it, and don't connect the dots. We need a unified educational entry into practice, that rewards nurses for their education, expertise, and skill.

    There would also be available more time for "quality of life classes" for nurses, that there is no time for in ADN, and Diploma programs. Like Employment Law, Administrative Law, that provides nurses with the knowledge and skills, to protect themselves, legally, in the workplace. These changes would greatly improve nursing.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  5. by   MultipurposeRN
    I'm not going to fall into the 'all LPNs are superior to the highley educated RNs' trap anymore than the 'all RNs are superior' one. Both have their place and responsibilities. I've seen lazy a** LPNs AND RN's that were a disgrace. Also have been privliged to work w/ LPN's who provided me some of the best education I've ever had, and RN's that did the same.
    I've seen some wonderful nurses w/ their Master's degrees. Yes, you tend to have jobs away from the bedside, but that doesn't mean you're not a real nurse and can't make a big impact on patient care.
    Nursing has so many facets and ways to practice that it's silly to make it credentials vs credentials.
  6. by   irshnrse
    Quote from lindarn
    While I have worked with many fine LPNs, and as I have stated in many other threads, I think that the time of LPNs/LVNs has come and gone. That is why so many hospitals across the country are phasing them out.

    Do you realize that you have less education than Physical Therapy Assistants? Whose claim to fame is walking patients around the unit, or exercising their legs and arms? What is wrong with this picture? Their educational entry into practice is a associates degree, while LPNs and LVNs have only a 9 month program. That is probably where their credibility with the public gets questioned. and probably why many RNs, including me, don't want to be responsible for their patient load, as well as my own. JMHO.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington



    Write yourself a memo...
    You are the type they are speaking about. I scored a 33 on my ACT test, you? I just chose to have a child and then CNA, ER tech, LPN, RN. This is why I worked in the PACU, under an anesthesiologist, and not under someone who loved to micromanage.
  7. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from lindarn
    That is exactly the reason that the entry into pratice should be a BSN, and phase out, and grandfather in, all ADN and Diploma grads. Nursing is the welfare of the health care professsionals. We are paid, and treated as such. No surprise there. There are those of us who started out as Diploma grads, and saw the light within months after graduation. And went back to school and earned a BSN. I did it the hard way, working fulltime, and going to school for 6 years to earn my BSN. Now, you can go to school on line, in RN to BSN completer programs.

    With no reward for my educational efforts at the bedside, I left and started my own business. When I am rewarded for my education, I will return to bedside nursing.

    I have heard nothing but "sob stories", about all of those nurses who wouldn't have been able to become nurses if it weren't for ADN programs. Now hear this- there is a glut of nurses (500,000 not working in nursing- not counting the foreign nurses, who are being brought here to combat the "nursing shortage"), and that is causing salary depression all over the country. When I hear about the "tremendous nursing shortage in so and so state", I look at the pay,working conditions, and lack of respect, and, no surprise.

    BSN as entry into practice would cut the number of individuals coming out of school, and by the law of supply and demand, salaries would go up. Just like PTs, OTs, pharmacists, etc. A hospital here in Yakima is ofering sign on bonuses of $20,000 for PTs.When was the last time you saw a substantial bonus for nurses, where the pay and working conditions weren't the pits?

    We do not need to continue to confuse the public any further, with different "flavors" of nurses. We continue to confuse the public, and everyone else, and we wonder why there is an identity crisis in nursing.
    Hospitals continue to encourage this confusion, and work it for all it's worth.

    They love that nursing is split. And they are the ones who keep telling us, "you don't need to go back and become and RN. or BSN". And refuse to pay nurses more for higher education, and certifications. They are laughing at us, all the way to the bank. It is financial security for them and the insurance companies. And nurses just don't get it, and don't connect the dots. We need a unified educational entry into practice, that rewards nurses for their education, expertise, and skill.

    There would also be available more time for "quality of life classes" for nurses, that there is no time for in ADN, and Diploma programs. Like Employment Law, Administrative Law, that provides nurses with the knowledge and skills, to protect themselves, legally, in the workplace. These changes would greatly improve nursing.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    That whole post is the prime example of what fuels the fire (and solves NOTHING, only serves to put others down, as always), only some people that repeat the same elistist things are also the same that wonder why people don't get along. The elistist attitude, not the education, is the problem


    When I am rewarded for my education, I will return to bedside nursing.

    If poeple want respect, they first need to stop thinking that the world owes them for what they have chosen to do with their own lives. Yes, i'm going back to school, yes, one day that will be for an MSN, however, that is of my choosing, and no, i do not feel that the world owes me squat for what i have chosen to do with my life.

    BSN as entry into practice would cut the number of individuals coming out of school, and by the law of supply and demand, salaries would go up.
    And until then, the patient pays the price.
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Sep 21, '06
  8. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from txspadequeen921
    What is going on here, is it National hate LVN month or something. I keep seeing new post going up everyday about how "LVN's a phasing out" or "I really want to be a RN should I settle to be a LVN right now". I know there has always been a thread or two about LVN's but this has become unreal.
    September might as well be labeled the 'National LPN-Bashing Month' because quite a few people are coming out of the woodwork to spew their inconsequential insults. Some of these people seriously need psychiatric help because they apparently suffer from low self-esteems.
  9. by   Brita01
    Quote from TheCommuter
    September might as well be labeled the 'National LPN-Bashing Month' because quite a few people are coming out of the woodwork to spew their inconsequential insults. Some of these people seriously need psychiatric help because they apparently suffer from low self-esteems.

    I agree. If you're content with your own life and career, you don't feel the need to bash others just for BEING. But bash away at me if you like. I go to work everyday with a smile on my face because I love who I am and love what I do. Too bad the bashers and broken records can't say the same thing.
  10. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from Brita01
    But bash away at me if you like. I go to work everyday with a smile on my face because I love who I am and love what I do. Too bad the bashers and broken records can't say the same thing.
    You are definitely not deserving of LPN-bashing.

    Rather, you're deserving of a commendation for taking pride in your career.
  11. by   P_RN
    Dear Hearts and Gentle People, let us not stray from the path set by the original poster. The BSN entry debate actually has little to do with LPNs not feeling respected.

    One should not have to defend their choice of career. I have a dear friend who is a plumber, he was a nurse and said he gets more solice helping someone with a leaky pipe than he ever felt being a nurse........

    Now that's a shame. Not that he is a plumber but that someone made him uncomfortable in his former job. He makes about the same as he did as an RN and feels fulfilled. Think about it. Someone (s) MADE him feel bad.

    SO no more BSN/ADN/LPN on this thread PLEASE!!!
    Oh and BTW I think LPNs are NURSES-just like me.
  12. by   VivaLasViejas
    I've worked with more than one LPN who has forgotten more about basic, hands-on, bedside nursing than I will ever learn in my lifetime.

    LPNs, RNs, BSNs, MSNs, DNSs, NPs, CNSs, CRNAs.........all of these have one thing in common, and that is the title of "Nurse"! No one is "better" than another........we're just different, and we perform different functions. Instead of focusing on the divisions between us, why not celebrate what UNITES us, and cherish our commonalities?
  13. by   moongirl
    Quote from mjlrn97
    I've worked with more than one LPN who has forgotten more about basic, hands-on, bedside nursing than I will ever learn in my lifetime.

    LPNs, RNs, BSNs, MSNs, DNSs, NPs, CNSs, CRNAs.........all of these have one thing in common, and that is the title of "Nurse"! No one is "better" than another........we're just different, and we perform different functions. Instead of focusing on the divisions between us, why not celebrate what UNITES us, and cherish our commonalities?
    :yeahthat:

    I do believe that there is the word NURSE in LPN, just the same as it is in RN

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