Not a real nurse?? - page 7

When I am in the capacity of charge nurse on my LTC unit , I find it humilliating and frustrating that I have to find an RN to sign off on my MD orders , and if we have a fall only they can do the... Read More

  1. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Quote from GN1974
    Respect for all levels--I agree. I also will be starting a BSN program this summer at my local university. They have a new on-line program and local clinicals that I can do at my place of employment. Yes, going to school, working, and raising a family is hard. I have 2 kids a teen and a tot. It can be done--but it is sure tough. BTW--have all A's as well. All pre-reqs done including the ones for the BSN program. I took them all at my local CC and was on the president's list every semester, while working. I also graduated ADN with honors. You may know the challenge but not everyone on here does.
    Karen
    On-line course in the BSN program???? Now that I can be jealous of!...LOL

    Good luck!!!...

    I see both sides of the argument, Karen. I just (the longer and longer I am in nursing) am so discouraged by all the division, disunity and lack of respect for eachother. I wish so much there could be an emphasis upon this issue included within our curriculum. Instead, most of what I see in regards to professionalism focuses only on individual (which I also think is important) or maybe also interdisciplinary (nurse to doctor, PT, radiology, whatever) relationships as opposed to intraprofessional relations. You know, nurse-nurse relationships, caring for eachother.
  2. by   GN1974
    Yes, many universities have distance/on-line RN to BSN courses now. Locally we have Florida hospital, UCF, and FSU that all offer RN to BSN on-line/distance with clinicals locally. I have decided to go with FSU because I have all the pre-reqs completed and can do the clinicals at my place of employment. Yes, the division is great but it is also not one sided. I do see RN's being arrogant to LPN's...but I also see plenty of LPN's with I am the same, I do the same thing, the RN is on her butt stuff. I don't like that.
    Karen



    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    On-line course in the BSN program???? Now that I can be jealous of!...LOL

    Good luck!!!...

    I see both sides of the argument, Karen. I just (the longer and longer I am in nursing) am so discouraged by all the division, disunity and lack of respect for eachother. I wish so much there could be an emphasis upon this issue included within our curriculum. Instead, most of what I see in regards to professionalism focuses only on individual (which I also think is important) or maybe also interdisciplinary (nurse to doctor, PT, radiology, whatever) relationships as opposed to intraprofessional relations. You know, nurse-nurse relationships, caring for eachother.
  3. by   txspadequeenRN
    Im not bashing EC grads here so dont flame me. It is a great way to go . But let me get this straight. You are here telling us that we dont are not up to par, when you survived the CPE based soley on your LPN skills. Then you started work as a RN with your LPN skills backing you. WOW, maybe LVN's are not so dumb after all!!!! I sense a wee bit of RNitis here ,you singling out the LPN's not being smart enough to pass college courses at the CC level ...come on and you think we are arrogant......


    Many LPN's didn't even make it past the micro at my community college--it was to tough they said (many of us did make it also).
  4. by   5FrSilastic
    Just a thought.

    We all have the opportunity in life to further our education, if we feel devalued, or whatever. For instance, I am a nurse. For me to complain that I cant diagnose and bill patients directly, perform surgery, etc. , as MD's do, is sour grapes. I lost that right when I completed my education as an RN. The laws are the laws,(licensing) and they are in place for reasons that are apparently beyond the thought process of some posters here. It could go on forever........ if everybody was qualified to do everything, at every level, there would be no credentialing.We could all hang signs on our front doors and claim to be what we want to be. So, good luck with changing these credentialing levels, and , if you decide to go back to school to further your education to be at the level that you think you should be at in your profession, I wish you even more luck!!!!!
  5. by   GN1974
    Yes, I am saying that several of my class mates at my local community college did not make it through micro--and several of them were LPN's. I will also let you know that several LPN's did not make it out of my community college algebra class too! Excuse me, becuase I may stand to be corrected, but, I believe in one of your posts you say you had taken like 30 some hours in remedial classes...then how on earth can you insinuate a community college is easy? Jeez if it were so darn easy you should have whipped through those remedial math classes (point proves was it so easy???). I myself was one of those students who thought algebra would be my hang up for not going on (I used to hate math). I am not saying LPN's can't pass micro or algebra but I am saying it is tough and some don't pass it--essentially I am saying I put much effort into passing and moving on! Always in life you will see success and failure. I initially started at my community college and took all the classes required for their ADN program. I was accepted to their ADN program but did not take that route due to family issues. Are you also saying that community colleges are easy? I think mine was pretty tough. I had a friend going to local university after 2 years at my CC say it was harder than the university. NO, I did not make it through the CPNE without much study and mentoring from a preceptor at my work. There is no RNitis here. I do feel good about my accomplishments but I do not think I am better than anyone--my scope is different now--I am held to a different level of practice with greater responsiblity now. Did I say I survived the CPNE soley on my LPN knowledge??? NOPE I DID NOT!!!!!! DOn't twist and make up things that weren't said. I think LPN's are great and will always be in demand. I integrated my new theory courses into my practice. I took my more in depth courses on assessing, gained increased theory and knowledge, and learned new skills while fine tuning others... and integrated those into daily practice with my patients. I asked the hows and whys I didn't understand and gained feedback from my academic advisors and preceptor. I took a on-line care planning class with Excelsior and practiced every day for 6 months. I DID NOT PASS THE CPNE ON LPN SKILLS ALONE--I studied my butt off to learn new skills and theory and to integrate them into safe patient care. I logged umpteen hours in charting and care planning. I read many of the incredibly easy series cover to cover (fluid and electrolytes, IV therapy, assessing). You do not have a clue about the time and prep that I put into the CPNE and no I really did not base it totally on my LPN skills--I learned independently, did some precepting, and learned using different texts and cd's that correlated with the nursing classes I took. Since you have not taken the CPNE or been with me on my individual quest to pass it you can't even come close to telling me what I learned to become an RN or where that learning expeience was obtained. You were not with me when I spent weeks making notes and writing them out after reading 100+ chapters in texts to make my notes and flash cards. I believe that you did not read the post correctly--I said that LPN's have not typically taken all the course work RNs have that allow them to sit for the NCLEX RN--that has nothing to do with skills being up to par. I was talking from an educational stance not soley technical skills(although my mentor sure helped me with a lot of skills I wasn't exposed to as an LPN and gave me good rationales behind different skills and topics--geez the texts really defined so many rationales). I realize there are some techs out there that can put a foley in better than some RN's but by all means they aren't LPNs or RNs just because their skills are to par. I sense a wee bit of insecurity here (how is that for reflecting ) Bottom line--LPN and RN are both nurses who deserve respect and recognition as nurses however their scope is not equal!!!


    Quote from txspadequeen921
    Im not bashing EC grads here so dont flame me. It is a great way to go . But let me get this straight. You are here telling us that we dont are not up to par, when you survived the CPE based soley on your LPN skills. Then you started work as a RN with your LPN skills backing you. WOW, maybe LVN's are not so dumb after all!!!! I sense a wee bit of RNitis here ,you singling out the LPN's not being smart enough to pass college courses at the CC level ...come on and you think we are arrogant......
    Last edit by GN1974 on Apr 26, '05
  6. by   GN1974
    Thank you!!! Well said and 100% of what I was trying to say.


    Quote from 5FrSilastic
    Just a thought.

    We all have the opportunity in life to further our education, if we feel devalued, or whatever. For instance, I am a nurse. For me to complain that I cant diagnose and bill patients directly, perform surgery, etc. , as MD's do, is sour grapes. I lost that right when I completed my education as an RN. The laws are the laws,(licensing) and they are in place for reasons that are apparently beyond the thought process of some posters here. It could go on forever........ if everybody was qualified to do everything, at every level, there would be no credentialing.We could all hang signs on our front doors and claim to be what we want to be. So, good luck with changing these credentialing levels, and , if you decide to go back to school to further your education to be at the level that you think you should be at in your profession, I wish you even more luck!!!!!
  7. by   GN1974
    I have been reading these posts...from the very start!!!! If you should look back into the post you will see other entries I have made on this topic. Have you read it from the start?




    Quote from lizscott nurse
    Goodness gracious! Someone isn't reading all the posts.
  8. by   lizscott nurse
    Quote from GN1974
    I have been reading these posts...from the very start!!!! If you should look back into the post you will see other entries I have made on this topic. Have you read it from the start?
    Yes, I have.
  9. by   lizscott nurse
    Quote from GN1974
    Bottom line--LPN and RN are both nurses who deserve respect and recognition as nurses however their scope is not equal!!!

    Amen! : ) My sentiments exactly.
  10. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Okay, okay, I know I'm :deadhorse BUT! I don't know what it's like where you guys are located, if there are just tons and tons of nursing schools lookin' to fill-up their seats. However, where I'm located the competition is extremely high to get into the ADN programs.

    Often, the applicants are told to get their LVN/LPN first to increase their chances of getting in using the transition route. These are applicants who have all of their basics for the ADN program with high GPAs. I've got a friend who even had all of her basics for BSN and still didn't get in!

    Most of the LVN students in my area are using it as a stepping stone (it's become almost a pre-req) to ADN program and are VERY intelligent.

    I didn't have any basics entering LVN 11 years ago but let me tell you having the experience as a nurse and having the instruction I got in my vocational program certainly helped me in my basics (A&P, micro, patho, chemistry, etc). Probably my hardest classes were things that don't really have anything to do with nursing like my fine arts elective, theatre history, or my british lit. class.....lol.

    Anyways, don't know where I was goin' with this except to say, never doubt your worth!!!!!!!!
  11. by   5FrSilastic
    Quote from xmaxiex
    I just do not understand the whole orders thing ? I mean as an LPN are we less qualified than an RN to record what instructions the MD gives us . I totally think you should always have someone check your orders, yes. But why not another LPN ? Am I missing the point here?
    I think you are. The point is , that, the BON in each state decides that an RN is qualified to do this task. Rn's dont decide this, the facility doesnt decide this.The state government decides this. Why would you expect the same level of responsibility with less education/credentials?

    I have a question, for all LPN/LVN's who have similar questions such as xmaxiex: In your opinion, which limits should be set on your scope of practice as an LPN/LVN, vs an RN?
    Do you think you should obtain less education, but perform equal tasks?
    Please do not read this as sarcastic, I am asking a serious question. I ask because every LPN I come across, and I realize this is just my experience, gripes about these issues, however, to me, it seems cut and dry. In my area, there is one LPN training course, the next state over, the total length of the program is 8 months. All nursing programs are 3-4 YEARS in length, with at least an associates degree obtained, except for Diploma programs, which have 3 full years of clinical as well as college coursework. Where is the frustration/confusion coming from? Please help me understand your point of view........!!!!!!!
  12. by   5FrSilastic
    Quote from LPNer
    I have reread your frustration many times since you first posted it. I have read the responses and I have to admit, I am still at a loss. What state are you in?
    I can only think it has something to do with your facility and the administration not understanding BON regulations.

    Many people believe the LPN can not work unless and RN tells them what to do. This is very untrue. Did you know that no RN can "delegate" a task that you are not permitted by your state BON to do. That being the case, there is nothing an RN has to delegate to us as we can work within our scope without the RN. We work under the direction of the MD, RN, etc.... the MD orders provide that direction.
    Now, in acute care facilities, there has to be an RN on the unit, and in LTC or home care, there has to be an RN available, but s/he is there as a resourse for the LPN since it is assumed (and usually is the case) has more knowledge than the LPN.

    At my hospital there are shifts that go by that I do not communicate with the RNs any more than they communicate with each other, that usually joking around as we pass in the med room and that kind of thing.

    I take my own orders, assess my own pts (our state requires an RN assess each pt for admission purposes - we have an admission nurse for that, so she usually does all the admission assessments) contact the Doc if something is amiss, etc.
    In Ohio LPNs can not give push meds or start blood so I sometimes have to ask a co-worker to give me a hand with these things, but that is not the RN delegating anything to me, s/he is simply performing a function the state prevents me from doing.

    I think I need to know what state you are in so I can avoid that one on my next move (we love to move fron state to state to get to know all about our great country)

    Oh I am going on and on again. That's why I haven't responded, when I am at a loss I ramble all sorts of thoughts; but I just have to know what state you are in?!
    What did her post have to do with delegation?
  13. by   5FrSilastic
    Quote from PHTLS
    ]
    You forgot CNA's
    (hiding, knowing someone will be enraged by this)

    No. CNA's are not "nurses".
    They ASSIST the actual "nurse"... hence the title....."Certified Nursing ASSISTANT" keyword "assistant"

    (LPN/LVN)....Licensed Practical /Vocational NURSE, yes, that equals a nurse.
    (RN)...Registered NURSE , yes, that equals a nurse.
    (NP)... NURSE Practitioner, yes, that equals a nurse.
    (CRNA)... Certified Registered NURSE Anesthetist.... , yes, that equals a nurse.

    (CNA)... Certified Nursing Assistant........ equals someone who assists a NURSE!!!!!!!

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