Not a real nurse??

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

When I am in the capacity of charge nurse on my LTC unit , I find it humilliating and frustrating that I have to find an RN to sign off on my MD orders , and if we have a fall only they can do the assessment. No wonder they treat us as if we are not " real " nurses.

That really didn't make much sense to me. I never had hospital experience when I started peds homecare...maybe your state requires it. I am reflecting upon when I WAS an LPN--and I was for 10 years! My thought is those that like to complain about their scope of practice shouldn't--a practical/vocational nurse is prepared to care for common conditions in stable, predictable patients. Most boards and employers (at least in the areas I have worked) do not allow LPNs to do initial assessments unless co-signed by the RN--this to me makes it hard to advance much. How can you be an advanced nurse and still not be able to do your own assessments? We don't make the rules as nurses...the boards and employers do. I as an LPN did not have the skills I do now for assessing--nor did I know all the rationales behind things. The education level is not that of the professional nurse. Complaining won't get you anywhere. It's my story and I am sticking to it--if you want more from your career get a higher degree or find a job you feel more respected in--that simple.

Things need to change in nursing. RNs move to make changes in their scope of practice all the time, yet LPNs seem to think it's not possible and RNs continue to foster that misconception (job security)!

We are not RNs, never said I think the wave of the future would be for all LPNs to go that route with or without additional formal education (if an LPN chooses to advance her pay substancially and increase job ops, then that is the way to go, but to remain a bedside nurses, we need advancement ops that do not require formal collegiate education at a costof $10,000.00 or so.

I honestly believe LPNs short change themselves and their abilities!

Were you not taught to assess your patients in LPN school? Were you not taught the rational behind that assessment?

Maybe there are schools out there in some states that require nothing from their LPN students but that is not what I am hearing from so many of the students and experienced LPNs and it is certainly not the way it was when I was in school.

Come on LPNs, tell us if you were or were not taught how to assess your patients and if you did or did not have to understand that assessment!

LPNs do not have the education the RNs do, that will not change. But we are given a broad base to start our carreer with and it is up to the individual to build on that base, just as an RN can and often is rewarded for that same "building on the base of knowledge" she gained in school (many facilities call that a ladder program) the LPNs should be offered the same opportunities.

Come on LPNs are you that insecure in your knowledge? Can we not stand together for our rights as licensed nurses? Why should RNs continue to gain in their scope while we sit and allow tham to "do away" with us?

Yes, LPNer I was taught assessment skills in my LPN school. My LPN school required a full length A&P 1 and 2 outside of the LPN curriculm before ever even starting nursing course work. My LPN school also required developmental psychology to be completed before nursing course work. I have good assessment skills BUT that does not mean the BON or most hospital employers allowed me, as an LPN, to do an initial assessment that wasn't co-signed by the RN. This is not about if I know how to assess but rather in what manner. I do not think you read my post correctly. I learned much more about assessing in my RN program. I guess until you take a bridge program you won't understand what exactly the added knowledge is that you gain. This is silly. Please go back and reread my previous post it stated MOST BOARDS AND SOME EMPLOYERS DO NOT ALLOW LPN's TO DO INITIAL ASSESMENTS!!!!! It wasn't about not knowing how to do one because most LPN schools do a good job teaching this--it is a question of if you can or not. Not once did I say that I couldn't! Do a search of the topic of LPN's not being allowed to do assessments and such and you will find plenty of info regarding the topic. I believe on this LPN corner someone says they used to assess in LTC (initial) and it is no longer a duty for the LPN. The hospital system I work at requires a co-sign for LPN's but they also don't hire any LPN's anymore--and on the PCU unit there are none. They have phased them out because they are limited (they can't give IVP, assess patients, spkie blood) and put a strain on the RN. My LPN experience sure has helped with my assessing skills--and I really fine tuned it in the RN program. Don't get flamed with me--if you don't like the rules write your board, your employer, or head back to school. I don't agree with phasing out LPN's because they are valuable, but you will always be having this same fight as an LPN. This is one reason why I furthered my education--I have the skills...I just fine tuned them, broadened my knowledge, and increased my pay and status.

Karen

Yes, LPNer I was taught assessment skills in my LPN school. My LPN school required a full length A&P 1 and 2 outside of the LPN curriculm before ever even starting nursing course work. My LPN school also required developmental psychology to be completed before nursing course work. I have good assessment skills BUT that does not mean the BON or most hospital employers allowed me, as an LPN, to do an initial assessment that wasn't co-signed by the RN. This is not about if I know how to assess but rather in what manner. I do not think you read my post correctly. I learned much more about assessing in my RN program. I guess until you take a bridge program you won't understand what exactly the added knowledge is that you gain. This is silly. Please go back and reread my previous post it stated MOST BOARDS AND SOME EMPLOYERS DO NOT ALLOW LPN's TO DO INITIAL ASSESMENTS!!!!! It wasn't about not knowing how to do one because most LPN schools do a good job teaching this--it is a question of if you can or not. Not once did I say that I couldn't! Do a search of the topic of LPN's not being allowed to do assessments and such and you will find plenty of info regarding the topic. I believe on this LPN corner someone says they used to assess in LTC (initial) and it is no longer a duty for the LPN. The hospital system I work at requires a co-sign for LPN's but they also don't hire any LPN's anymore--and on the PCU unit there are none. They have phased them out because they are limited (they can't give IVP, assess patients, spkie blood) and put a strain on the RN. My LPN experience sure has helped with my assessing skills--and I really fine tuned it in the RN program. Don't get flamed with me--if you don't like the rules write your board, your employer, or head back to school. I don't agree with phasing out LPN's because they are valuable, but you will always be having this same fight as an LPN. This is one reason why I furthered my education--I have the skills...I just fine tuned them, broadened my knowledge, and increased my pay and status.

Karen

Actually I do undrestand. I have far more formal education than being a simple LPN indicates. When my first husband died, sorely underinsured, I had nearly completed the ADN program. In all these 20 years since I have continued to work as an LPN and care for my children and their educational needs.

Everyone assumes I do not know what I am talking about. I do. And an RN is better educated, no argument there. I am simply stateing that as LPNs we should fight for ourselves and not sit down and roll over because we are not as educated as RNs. Just becasue an RN knows more, does not mean an LPN does not know enough. Get it?

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
I am simply stateing that as LPNs we should fight for ourselves and not sit down and roll over because we are not as educated as RNs. Just becasue an RN knows more, does not mean an LPN does not know enough.

YES!!!

Specializes in Hospice/Palliative Care, Critical care, Burns.
YES!!!

I am relatively "new" to nursing, only having been an LPN for 4 1/2 years. I'll tell you this much. "Education" proves very little when it comes to effective nursing care - I have seen diploma RN's work circles around MSN holders. Why is this the case? Alot of nursing has "nothing" to do with theory and has everything to do with practical sense - or what Grandpa would have called "horse sense". Sometimes you can do the "wrong" thing and get the "right" results, and as long as a JCAHO inspection isn't looming - then no one seems to mind.

I have met some top notch LPN's in my tenure!

Happy nursing!

Steven King

I am relatively "new" to nursing, only having been an LPN for 4 1/2 years. I'll tell you this much. "Education" proves very little when it comes to effective nursing care - I have seen diploma RN's work circles around MSN holders. Why is this the case? Alot of nursing has "nothing" to do with theory and has everything to do with practical sense - or what Grandpa would have called "horse sense". Sometimes you can do the "wrong" thing and get the "right" results, and as long as a JCAHO inspection isn't looming - then no one seems to mind.

I have met some top notch LPN's in my tenure!

Happy nursing!

Steven King

I do agree that there are good and bad in all types of nurses...but common sense and work related experience doesn't equate a degree in the sight of the BON.

I do agree that there are good and bad in all types of nurses...but common sense and work related experience doesn't equate a degree in the site of the BON.

I do not remember anyone saying it does or should or could or anything else like that.

Where did you get the idea that anyone has said that?

I never implied anyone said this. My intent was to point out that it does not matter how good you are in the eyes of some employers and the BON--they don't give recognition and upward mobility for this. They may in reference to raises, etc.--but not in relation to moving beyond a specified scope. It is the duty of your employer to recognize your hard work and skills, especially if they are greater than other nurses at your level. I can see your point with a ladder type system--as long as it is contained within your scope of practice. I do not think that LPN's scope should be broadened to that of the RN though. I firmly believe if you wish to practice on the RN level you must head back for the degree. LPNer, I respect LPN's...I was one for 10 years! I am really not sure what you feel the fight is that LPN's need to stand up for. I understand that some employers are going to all RN staff due to acuity reasons--I think in most cases this isn't all bad. There is more than enough room in this profession for both levels of nurses...but the more acute care should be left to those with the more advanced degree.

Karen

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
My intent was to point out that it does not matter how good you are in the eyes of some employers and the BON--they don't give recognition and upward mobility for this.

Individual nurses, not just the BON, are doing the same, don't you think?

Yes, I do think individual nurses do this too! There is room for both types of nurses in this profession. More than once as an LPN it was pointed out to me that because I was not an RN I couldn't get a particular job or do a specific assignment. Unfortunately as an LPN you will always have this struggle--one reason I furthered my education. I am thankful for the opportunity I had to go on. It won't end here though--no matter what you do in life there will always be some saying they are better, etc. We live in a society that is sometimes focused inward--and our profession is one that should be focused outward.

Karen

I never implied anyone said this. My intent was to point out that it does not matter how good you are in the eyes of some employers and the BON--they don't give recognition and upward mobility for this. They may in reference to raises, etc.--but not in relation to moving beyond a specified scope. It is the duty of your employer to recognize your hard work and skills, especially if they are greater than other nurses at your level. I can see your point with a ladder type system--as long as it is contained within your scope of practice. I do not think that LPN's scope should be broadened to that of the RN though. I firmly believe if you wish to practice on the RN level you must head back for the degree. LPNer, I respect LPN's...I was one for 10 years! I am really not sure what you feel the fight is that LPN's need to stand up for. I understand that some employers are going to all RN staff due to acuity reasons--I think in most cases this isn't all bad. There is more than enough room in this profession for both levels of nurses...but the more acute care should be left to those with the more advanced degree.

Karen

Just because they do not reward nurses for education aquired in other ways than college credits does not mean this can not change! That's my who point! LPNs need to stand together and be seen!

RNs have various ladder programs (their scope allows employees to do this, at present the LPNs scope does not) LPNs must stand together and work with the BON to allow this to become a reality for LPNs.

The online bridge programs do make becoming an RN feasible for a lot of LPNs who could not do it otherwise but that is not an option for many of us and an in-house or even statewide "ladder" program or certification program would allow LPNs to remain LPNs AND advance in their chosen carreer!

Laws and regulations CAN change, it's time LPNs banded together to facilitate those changes.

I agree to a certain extent but when you go to school to become an LPN you are made aware of your scope of practice. LPN to me is a ground level entry point into nursing. The career ladder you speak of is hard to achieve at an entry level position unless you employ upward mobility--and that would be into an RN program. Practical nursing is meant to be just as it sounds and unfortunately it has no real career mobility within itself. Professional nursing, as the board calls it, has several levels indeed. I do understand your frustration but I really don't see how there could possibly be many levels to LPN scopes when they are basically all predefined. I knew going into LPN practice that my practice was one with limited mobility unless I did a bridge program. While I understand I don't agree.

Karen

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