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Nurses LPN/LVN

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I live in Tulsa and just received my license 2 weeks ago. The hospitals around here are not hiring LPNs but they were when I started school. I'm a nurse tech at my hospital and human resources wants to move towards an all RN staff, thanks to Wellsprings coming in and revamping hospital policies. :angryfire I even make more money (with shift diff) than a new grad LPN at my hospital. I want to leave my job sooo bad. The only hospital that did have a position was for a prn wound care nurse. I find it sad to resort to changing dressings after all I've learned in school. Where is a newbie to get some hospital experience? I even contacted various places like home health, hospices, dialysis and agency, nothing. Agencies require 6-12 months med-surg experience. I'd hate to lose those hard earned nursing skills by going to a nursing home. Before I can even think of RN school, I need to start working as a nurse, get some skills and make decent money first. I want to utilize some critical nursing skills like med-surg but if no one gives me a chance, what can I do? I can't move out of state with a house and husband (who has a couple of surgeries pending). its frustrating. :crying2:

ladybay

Thanks girls for your encouragement. C raye, if you are able to return to school for your RN, by all means do so. It is such a shame to go through school and then have employers tell you you're don't have experience without offering you the job to gain experience. The reason I chose the lpn route first was because I needed to make a little more money than I was as a tech before I could move on to RN. I am not financially able to go through at least 3 years of college to get my RN at this time. As for those employers refusing new grad lpns but want experienced lpn's, is it because no one wants to take the time to train an lpn or find us worthy? I doubt that would be the case with a new grad RN. Not trying to start WWIII, but for whatever the reason we know this is true.

To chatsdale, it is not to my advantage to take a wound care job at the expense of losing my utilities, car etc. As I've stated before in my original post, that position was and still is for prn only = "we'll call you if we need you" job. I need an 80 hour paycheck every 2 weeks to live from. I have since put in resume's at various nursing homes with snf's and rehabs included in them.

Could some of you nurses who have been nurses for a while, can someone please tell me the "real" reason you think lpn's are limited to what they can do when we have been trained to do much more? Why does management or whoever calls the shots would rather continue the "nursing shortage" without the aid of lpn's? Using the help of lpn's may not totally solve the problem but we can for sure be of help. I am not a rocket scientist but since there are fewer new grad RN's, it would cost less money to use lpn's IN ADDITION to RN's rather than have an all RN nurse staff, possibly avoiding some serious nurse burnout from the outrageous nurse/patient ratios, long mandatory hours and the compromise of patient care and safety. It could be a win-win situation for everyone.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Long Term Care.
Could some of you nurses who have been nurses for a while, can someone please tell me the "real" reason you think lpn's are limited to what they can do when we have been trained to do much more? Why does management or whoever calls the shots would rather continue the "nursing shortage" without the aid of lpn's? Using the help of lpn's may not totally solve the problem but we can for sure be of help. I am not a rocket scientist but since there are fewer new grad RN's, it would cost less money to use lpn's IN ADDITION to RN's rather than have an all RN nurse staff, possibly avoiding some serious nurse burnout from the outrageous nurse/patient ratios, long mandatory hours and the compromise of patient care and safety. It could be a win-win situation for everyone.

I'm not sure I can tell you the "real" reason for phasing out LPN's at hospitals, only what I'm hearing and observing at my suburban PA hospital. I work with some great LPN's and am thankful for their competence, patient care, and most are teamworkers. On our med-surg unit, our ratios are 1:6/7. (11-7 sometimes has more patients/nurse). The LPN's are the only nurses with a "set ratio" in that we RN's must also care for any needs or problems the LPN's patients have in addition to our own patient assignment. It adds to our already heavy load when we are also calling, on behalf of LPN's, for doctor's orders, signing off new orders, hanging blood products, TPN, giving IV pushes, titrating heparin and narcotic drips, and doing admissions and initial assesments on their new patients. Also, LPN's are not allowed to have patients getting chemo, on narcotic drips, continuous epidurals, or on PCA.

I recently talked to management about all the tasks LPN's can't perform at our hospital even though the Pennsylvania Code says that they MAY take doctors' orders, for example. (EXCEPT for anything NOT in their scope of practice-- they can't take PCA, IV push, or blood product orders, for instance.) So, to avoid any potential probelms, administration says LPN's cannot call for orders. I asked, "If the RN titrates and cares for the PCA and continuous epidural pumps, can't LPN's take these patients?" The answer is "no". My nursing director said that all hospitals in the area are operating under the same guidelines for LPN's, but it's different at LTC facilities for some reason-- LPN's are often allowed to call for doctor orders.

It's very frustrating for both the LPN's AND the RN's that LPN's aren't allowed to do more, and it places heavier burdens on the RN's as well. I wish it could be different, but this is reality... :o

*Edited to add: I realize I didn't answer your question very well, but my unit director also said that LPN's aren't permitted to do as much because of receiving less education than an RN, but we've all worked with LPN's who often know LOTS more than some RN's (especially the newer RN's) from working and continual self-education.

I work in a LTC and I am an LPN. I have used all my skills I learned in nursing school and then some. Sometimes I feel I am working on the med -surg floor where I did my clincals .. It is very busy , plus we have a skilled unit and some of the patients have I.V`s which my facilty trains LPN`s to be IV certified . I do trach care, and feeding tubes , and as far as wound care goes we do it all , even using wound vac. As a nurse in LTC , you must be very flexible. you can learn all your skills there and also learn how to be a supervisor ( Charge nurse).

I admit I did go to an RN school and I was learing my skills as an RN. I even went to my psych rotation. That`s another skill you need to use whne you work in LTC , how to speak to the residents with Alztimer and Dementia . So maybe you should atleast give LTC a try.

Nursejosie

Specializes in ER, PACU.

Another poster had mentioned maybe considering a subacute unit at a LTC facility. The first LTC place I worked at had one, and let me assure you, it was almost the same as the med surg floor in a hospital! Nowadays the hospitals kick the patients out in too short a time, and these patients that are too sick to go home sort of "extend" thier hospital stay in the subacute unit. These patients are not all elderly, there are some young patients who had major surgery, or need some rehab. It ran like a med surg floor, and you will be so busy, you will gain your skills in no time. Look into it at least, you never know!

Hi Ladybay

Boy, am I glad you have been writing in here, I can relate totally to your situation as a new LPN grad. This experience has been sooooo disappointing and I, too, cannot move out of the area. (I can however apply for reciprocity in a border state and try to work at a small rural hospital about a half hour from here. But the pickings are slim in both states). In the meantime, I can't mess around any longer looking - I might have to take a ltc position for income and it is not what I want to do at all, despite all the talk that it could be good for me, etc. I too have been shocked by the reality that LPN's just aren't treated the same professionally. I fell into the same line of thinking that you did about LPN being a good way to get into nursing (my first mistake) and did a majority of my clinical at two local hospitals while in school. When I graduated with honors and passed the board, I went to apply for jobs at my clinical sites and the recruiters just handed my resume. The hospitals had let go of LPN's they had already on staff, and they weren't about take a new LPN grad in, period. Everywhere I have gone since, including the docs offices, clinics, agencies and homecare have given me the same answer: You need a RN and/or at the very least, one year of med-surg. (I completed 800 hours of clinical on two med surg floors, but that hasn't been enought to make a sale. I'm at my financial wits end and to top it off my husband had an accident that has left him on disability which is half his normal income. Attend RN school now? First of all, the idea really ticks me off after going thru what I've been thru and secondly I don't see how - we're close to bankruptcy. Hopefully I can find something to hold us over for a year or two and my husband willl get better and be back to work in a few months. The thought of LTC being my ONLY career option after all my hard work just makes my heart ache. Please keep me advised on how things are on your end. My other classmates are just as disheartened - many have taken LTC jobs and are tired, overworked and frustrated. Many are on their second LTC job, having only lasted a few weeks at the first facility because the lack of orientation and the ratio of patients to nurses (60 to one on the night shift.) Those like me who wanted to be exposed to the acute care side of things are looking into additinal schooling - others have given up altogether and have gone back to EMT or MA or phlebotomy. (the ones I know of.) I'm not sure if the grass is greener elsewhere but it sure ain't here. Please let me know how you resolve things. Anyone considering an LPN program, think again. You have no idea how much you are about to be misled.

As far as I'm concerned, LPN schools and programs should be done away with so that people will know they don't even have that option. Why put yourself through such rigorous education and not get anything for it afterall.I too am a new grad who has gone through the whole "not hiring LPN thing" in acute care settings. My situation is even worse because here in the Northeast even the LTC facilities have a problem hiring new grads. I'm basically left with no option but to go back for my RN sooner than I thought. Good luck to everyone.

Man, thanks for championing the use of LPNs where you work. Here in the Northeast the LPNs have been thrown to the wolves. (actually, the nursing homes). Wish you were up here to crack a few skulls together!

Man, thanks for championing the use of LPNs where you work. Here in the Northeast the LPNs have been thrown to the wolves. (actually, the nursing homes). Wish you were up here to crack a few skulls together!

Your very welcome. I think LPN's are there to help me and they should be treated just as equally as the RN's. I dont care if you cant do initial assesments. Heck its not a problem for me I usually do the initial assesments and then just hand them back off to the LPN's. Infact I let the pn's do alot for me. Your there to help take the load off of me.

Thanks,

Rod RN,BSN:p

I am so sad to hear, as a former LPN myself, that this type of thing is going on today and people are being recruited into LPN school without receiving truthful accounts of their job prospects in their area. I guess it is imperative people do their research today, as not all areas utilize LPN's like they should.

In Texas, there are still SOME opportunities in acute care for LPN's, but I've watched them dwindle in the past few years...many facilities choose to staff with RN's, PCT's and NA's on a team now and have eliminated LPN's, sadly.

On another thread we discussed this issue as well. Hopefully this is a reversible trend but with today's legalities, perhaps not.

Perhaps part of the reason behind this trend is RN's may prefer to work with other RN's today. Let me shed some light on this to LPN's who may not understand. It is not because we don't value LPN's, it is because of facility's unresponsiveness.

Understaffing issues/liability can create an undue burden for RN's working with LPN's in today's hectic workplace. I have been in this type unsupportive, poorly planned setting and it isn't any fun. I will likely have my own full load, equivalent to the LPN in numbers, they are likely more complex, PLUS I may have to do all the orders, call all the docs, do all her asessments and IV's etc. The liability can easily skyrocket, and those of you who work acute care can relate I'm sure.

Team nursing works well if its done right, but too many facilities won't staff appropriately today will they? And it is sad because I know it can be done right. if there really WAS a 'nurse shortage' as healthcare facilities claim, I would think they would be grateful to hire a nurse period, LPN or RN, and would find a workable system to employ good nurses of all types.

But...not all facilities are in the market for just 'any' nurse...they seem to be looking for that perfect, 'plug and play' nurse who has exactly what they are looking for. :(

I can sure relate to spending time and $$ in school and then be unable to find a job. Not a good feeling...and hope something opens up soon for the OP. Have you considered seeking a job with an acute facility with the goal being working on your ADN through Excelsior at your own pace? I work with lots of LPN's who are doing this...facilities like to hire students and frequently help with tuition reimbursement.

If you enjoy nursing this might be a way to get your foot in the door with acute facilities, keep some income coming in, etc.

If you can't find a LPN position, perhaps a secretarial or monitor tech position? Good luck...I am a former LPN who worked herself through RN school for more job opportunities. I wish you well and hope you find something workable for you and your family. :)

Hi Matt's Mom: Thanks for writing in and for your suggestions. I've scanned the message boards and I've read your responses to others and you seem like a genuinely nice person. Really. Thank you for coming from a good spot in your soul. I have sort of figured out along the way the reasons why the hospitals in my area are reluctant to hire lpns, and your explanation of the the additional duties RNs have to assume when an LPN comes on staff confirms things. I don't take things personally. I'm pretty objective, actually. So I can see why an LPN would be percieved as a hindrance, rather than a badly needed pair of hands during a nursing crisis. So be it. Where I live, the hospitals ripped the rug right out from under LPNs when I graduated - we were there just long enough at our hospital clinical sites to help out on the floor while the administration was busy laying off their current LPNs. Then they turned around to recruit RN nursing students from a local RN school through a "new and promising affiliation between institutions" . Of course, no one told us any of this. We were too busy trying to keep our heads above water until graduation - we weren't necessarily watching the insider newsletters and PR releases in the newspaper. To put it in a nutshell, we got played. For my classmates who wanted to enter the nursing homes, they didn't perceive the problem. But now that some of them have lifted their heads out of the sand to look at other options, they are discovering what I already have: LPN in these parts doesn't give you any. I ,for one, am chalking up my whole LPN license to experience and am striking out in a new direction. I have decided to pick up other skills- phlebotomy, EKG, EMT, anything else that will give me additional skills and income. In the meantime, my squeaky clean LPN license is going on the backburner while I knock off my Excelsior classes. ( I need three prereqs and 7 nursing courses) and then I'll have the RN BSN, not just an ADN. I figure it will run around $15,000, the cost of a car, but at least it will be a car (degree) that is "acceptable" in acute care. I had a roommate once from India who told me "Bitten once by a dog, blame the dog. Bitten twice, blame yourself. " I won't blame my LPN school for misleading me - in some states LPN might still be a good thing. I'll still give it the benefit of the doubt. And heck, if you want to work in a nursing home, LPN is great preparation. It's just the environment for job opportunities changed and I didn't monitor it the way I should have and looked out for myself. That's the only mistake I made. Lesson learned. But to think I actually believed my LPN school admissions person and instructors! Oh, God, I laugh at it all now. I must have looked like Private Benjamin looking for the army's condos and yachts and being puzzled not to find any! Okay, okay, the joke's over. The laugh is on me. Alright, everyone, get back to work now. There's a nursing shortage, remember? Maybe the hospitals and some insecure RNs don't get that point. But I'll be back alongside you in two years as an equal. And with quite a few other skills to boot in case a BSN, some day, isn't good enough either. See y'all in 2006.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Wound care can be an entire specialty...WOC nurse. I'd love to do it myself.

Maybe you can check into it to see what the wound care job entails. It may be more interesting than what you think.

Good luck to you :)

Furthermore, don't knock the nursing home too bad. The nursing homes pay a lot better than the hospitals, for one thing. I gave up my job after four years of working at a particular nursing home and wish I could get my job back (they have a surplus of nurses now, but everyone in the business knows how those cycles go).

I can't find a job anywhere right now. I was pretty upset today because I drove around collecting newspapers from all the surrounding towns and the ratio of RN to LPN openings was like 10:1 It was pretty upsetting to think of the year of agony and hard work and time I spent away from my two babies and how my diploma didn't seem to hardly be worth the paper it was printed on.

If the health care industry wants to move away from LPN's why the h^%% don't they start closing down the LPN programs?

Now, I get to look forward to more school, it is obvious your choices are very limited when you are an LPN. I do have to say that the director of the LPN program *did* inform us up front that our best chances for employment would be in a nursing home. Most of us were so strapped for money we didn't even care at the time. My complaint isn't so much that the nursing home is the only place to work, but the nursing homes are not even hiring anymore. I've noticed on the nurse license registry there are hoards of LPN's awaiting results for their NCLEX...more LPN's flooding a market where they are no longer needed....sad.

In the meantime, my squeaky clean LPN license is going on the backburner while I knock off my Excelsior classes. ( I need three prereqs and 7 nursing courses) and then I'll have the RN BSN, not just an ADN. I figure it will run around $15,000, the cost of a car, but at least it will be a car (degree) that is "acceptable"case a BSN, some day, isn't good enough either. See y'all in 2006.

Excelsior no longer accepts LPN's for their BSN program.

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