"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)

I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.

Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)

Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above

Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)

Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?

There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...

Jennifer

~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

I was an lpn for five years before getting my RN four years ago. I worked in hospitals as an LPN and was sick of asking an RN to do my IVP meds, my intial assesment and so forth. I like to work independently so i went back to school and finished my RN. While in school for RN i realized there is infact a big difference between the RN and LPN programs. RN program teaches you to be more of a critical thinker, to look at lab values of pt, assesing your pt more carefully and looking for any unusual cues, also there is much more pharmacology in RN program then in LPN program. So yes there is a difference between an RN and LPN. There is a reason why LPN's cannot do IVP meds or there first intial assesment. Members of state board of nursing are not stupid and there is a reason for what's in your state practice act for job description between an lpn and RN. Maybe if you are a good learner you can have these skills with your years of experience but i still think there's more theory and detailed learning in an RN program ALSO this does not neccessarily mean all RN's ARE SMART!!!!!!

The PN education I received involved a very indepth pharmacology course (when on clinicals we found out that our course was more indepth than the RN students who were also on our floor) Lab values and how to read them was a huge part of our med/surg rotation. Initial assessment is within our scope of practice.

And in the health region I work in, IV push is a skill restricted to RNs in the ICUs and ER departments.

And I'll stand by my statement that critical thinking cannot be taught. You either do it or you don't.

I've been wondering how the push of the DNP will affect LPN, ASN, and BSN. The new ANCC initiative states that DNP will be the standard for nurse practitioners. There was a push in the 90s for BSN to be the standard qualification for RNs which never came to be. I'm not sure what will happen. I work with a lot of psych LPNs.

I'm curious about this as well. I read this message board today by medical students, and how they feel the DNP is insulting to MDs because there is a difference between "nursing" and "medicine". It seems like someone posting over there also posts over here. Hmm... interesting :o

Specializes in behavioral health.

ouch >_<. there is an epic debate on our own forum about this as well: href="https://allnurses.com/nurse-practitioners-np/doctoral-degree-become-160044.html">https://allnurses.com/nurse-practitioners-np/doctoral-degree-become-160044.html

nursing is a weird profession. But I suppose, getting back to the thread, I like LPNs and if well-utilized, they expand patient care.

61 pages?! Yikes!!

I am not yet a nurse, nor am I working in the medical field, but I have respect for everyone that does. No matter what degree or certificate someone has, if they have the strength, intelligence, and compassion to deal with half the crap health care professionals deal with, then hats off to them. Big respect, regardless of the credentials.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

Dear Fiona:

Thank you for your input on the Canadian changes for PNs. I hope you didn't think my comment about "critical thinking" was insulting. I didn't know if the PN/LPN/LVN curricula contained that. I didn't mean that others couldn't achieve the skills to do it, as it's taught at universities in 4 year courses. It's just that the formal education regarding that, may have been left out of shorter courses.

When the 2 year RN programs started, graduates had to do a year as "interns". Is that still happening? How much monitoring is involved?

It's so important that nurses work as a team, picking up where the other leaves off, and caring about each others' wellbeing. If we get carried away by how many years we studied and/or become jealous of each other, discord results which makes it difficult to appreciate the role we all have. That's why I brought up the possibility of phasing LPN/LVN/PN preparation into the shorter RN programs, and we'd have the same educational preparation.

Hopefully we can appreciate each others' strengths as well as filling in where another nurse may be lacking, without dis'ing him/her. The different specialties'

certifications will denote extra preparation and that needs to be appreciated as the utilization of aptitudes,that result in fulfilling our potential. There's been much too much banter about who's the better nurse - and some are better at some things than others, usually due to experience and luck in working with other nurses who share their expertise.

Being in "charge" of a unit can be daunting for those who feel unprepared to do that. In my day, you just "came up to bat" as it were, and did it based on how others you worked with, did it. I was never comfortable doing it, which is one of the reasons I selected OB nursing. Med-Surg was not my forte. Hence my moniker here. I taught prenatal classes for 35 years, loving every moment.

My degree helped me get jobs like Infection Control, Employee Health, research, and teaching situations. That's the beauty of our occupation, variety of purposes presents lots of challenges. However I value nurses who love med-surg and stick to it, as I've been their patient, and felt secure knowing that.

Thank you so much for the incredible feedback. I'm really happy to see that the people who posted against LPNs in the other thread are in the minority (and surprisingly vacant from this thread)

I don't know what I want to do with myself long term, career-wise, (med surg/psych/postpartum/ect) but I am definitely thinking after reading this thread that the hospital position that i know is available here might be the way to go. Its a 3 month orientation, on top of our caring for our patients there for clinicals, so I think that it might not be a bad way to go.

My education is HARD, and I guess that was the biggest point I was concerned with. I am a student who has always been able to get A's with my eyes closed, and struggling to maintain a B average because of the amount of material we cover and the difficulty of the tests (never have a question asking you to list lab values or quote the patho of anything...always a situational question where patient presents with x, y, z, and you have to assess for something particular because it hints at a specific diagnosis). I have a pharmacology test coming up for 12 chapters (we learn 2-4 chapters in a 2 hr class period and have 3 classes plus clinicals each week), and there is no real review for the test (she *s some items, but if you studied just that you would get a 50% because about half the test can come from anywhere else...so you have to really KNOW the entire information set) I guess I just was taken aback by someone suggesting that my education was lacking, and wondering just what kind of education an RN would be getting because if it gets any more information intensive than this I might lose my mind, lol.

Thank you all again for the incredible insight and support into the world of being an LPN. It has helped me immensely. :)

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I also believe that the majority of LPNs work in sub-optimal conditions-such as the nursing homes with so many patients, so little time. Those are the things that are more discouraging than anything else. So horrible that any facility anywhere would expose their patients and nurses to subhuman conditions. These are reasons why so many resort to dangerous short cuts in care...it is not humanly possible to render care like this on a daily basis without burning out somewhere.

Here in Ontario, we are going thru a HUGE economic crisis in the health care field. Alot of acute units are hiring RPNs (LPNs) to save money. As long as the assignment is appropriate.........I would rather work with an RPN then work short. Here in Ontario they can do pretty much what RNs can, with some exceptions. The only difference is, they can only care for pts with a predictable outcome. On a cardiac (post CABG) ward, I don't see anything predictable. All the same, they can cover some of my tasks, while I cover some of theirs. Having 18 pts on nights is a recipe for disaster and scares the hell out of me.....so welcome aboard!

Specializes in psych. rehab nursing, float pool.

Sadly the heading of this whole thread disgusts me. :Yes, reading through the posts many support LPN's, however of those who just browse the topics without reading the entire thread, This in their minds says, LPN's should be done away with altogether. I realize that was not the message intent of the original poster. It was certainly a big red flag to me though, how many people out there now belive that without reading LPN's should be rid of once and for good. We would be blind not to realize there are those who think that. Especially those who have not worked with LPN's.

Specializes in emergency room.

I have worked as an LPN for 31 years and received my training at a Catholic teaching hospital. I am currently enrolled in a transition program, and have been a school nurse for the last several years. I received the same training as an RN with one exception....I had far more clinical experience than an RN which in my day the RN's didn't even go on the floor until AFTER graduation. I do IV therapy with IV meds and pushes and have worked in critical areas without any problems. One RN I worked with freaked when a man coded and cried while I gave CPR. It is a lack of education on the part of RN programs as to the role of an LPN and their education, and it is unfair for an RN to make such statements. This has been a long standing issue as far back as I can remember. Many former LPN's who are now Rn's will agree that their training as an LPN was far more intense than the Rn training they received. The point of LPNs in the first place was to get them trained as quickly as possibly to get them on the floor to take care of the patients. But to say we are useless and have a lack of education is ignorance. LPNs may not know the reason why they are doing something but they certainly know everything else about the care of the patient or disease, etc. I have 910 students and triage all day long. Difference between the two are that RNs have management training which,by the way, we can take as well.

Sadly the heading of this whole thread disgusts me. :Yes, reading through the posts many support LPN's, however of those who just browse the topics without reading the entire thread, This in their minds says, LPN's should be done away with altogether. I realize that was not the message intent of the original poster. It was certainly a big red flag to me though, how many people out there now belive that without reading LPN's should be rid of once and for good. We would be blind not to realize there are those who think that. Especially those who have not worked with LPN's.

I really do not think that anyone would take a thread title to heart considering the variety of threads that exist. I am sorry that it "disgusts" you, but if someone makes that kind of judgement based on one thread title on a massive board like this one with the amount of comments and opinions contained herein... well I don't know. I certainly did not intend to turn anyone against LPNs (obviously..if I disliked it I would not be in school for it). Read a few pages of threads and see what you would interpret if all you read were thread titles when making your opinions about life. Just saying...

I actually, in an effort not to start conflict, picked the least offensive thing said in the other thread as my starting point. That was the LEAST offensive comment made, so you can imagine that it was pretty bad, IMO. (plus if I did not find such an amazingly negative sentiment I would not have been moved to start a thread in the first place... I'm still in shock at the comments I saw over there)

Specializes in ICU.
I really do not think that anyone would take a thread title to heart considering the variety of threads that exist. I am sorry that it "disgusts" you, but if someone makes that kind of judgement based on one thread title on a massive board like this one with the amount of comments and opinions contained herein... well I don't know. I certainly did not intend to turn anyone against LPNs (obviously..if I disliked it I would not be in school for it). Read a few pages of threads and see what you would interpret if all you read were thread titles when making your opinions about life. Just saying...

I actually, in an effort not to start conflict, picked the least offensive thing said in the other thread as my starting point. That was the LEAST offensive comment made, so you can imagine that it was pretty bad, IMO. (plus if I did not find such an amazingly negative sentiment I would not have been moved to start a thread in the first place... I'm still in shock at the comments I saw over there)

I like to compare this to doing the end of shift assignment. No matter what you do, there will always be someone that is unhappy about it.

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