Do you feel the LVN/Lpn Is being left out in the nursing profession? - page 7

Alot of the issue lately being brought up in the senate concerns RNs do you feel the Lpn/Lvn is being left out in the issues presented?... Read More

  1. by   KaraLea
    At my last job, Med/Surg in a small rural hospital, I worked alongside RN's who were doing the exact same job that I was. The only difference was that they could work with central lines and could hang blood products. I could then monitor the blood and IV fluids going into the central lines, I just couldn't start the blood or hook the fluids into the central line. OH and the RN's were paid 1 1/2-2 times what I was. But all of those RN's treated me like an equal on the job. I once made a comment to one RN when asking her to give an IV med through a central line that I couldn't because "I'm just a LVN". She turned to me and said "Never say you are 'Just' anything. We are all NURSES, doing the same job...taking care of the patients".
    Also, just a note for the CNA's out there. I was a CNA for 8yrs before getting my LVN and have never taken them for granted. I don't even want to think about what my job would be like without them. They are valuable members of the team and yes they are extremely underpaid.
  2. by   norinradd
    Hello board. First I have no grip about any nurses doing there best for patient care. We have all known LPNs and RNs that scared the heck out of us just knowing they were responsible for another human live. We have also known nurses who covered their insecurities by playing politics to their own good and not the patients. I do believe this thread as concluded that LPNs do "feel" slighted. This discussion I believe is not about RNs vs LPNs but about LPNs being aloud to contribute to the best of their abilities toward the care of their patients. Some of those barriers where placed by some RNs and allowed to stand because of most LPNs.
    I do not mind the Nurse Practice Act making me dependent upon a doctor or even a nurse practioner. I do wonder how one can be dependent upon an RN who herself is dependent. An RN can not open a office on her own and give care. Nurse Practice Acts are out of date and have been infulenced by to many people not looking out for the patients first. Should not the doctors and the admin have the last word on what one can do. They after all are the ones responsible with us for our actions. The ANA and many other organizations have denied us full membership and have not adequately represented all nurses equally. Our oraganizations do little for us and I do not support those that do not try. One day there may be such an organization and then they will not only get my money but my efforts.
  3. by   theboss
    Hey Fellow LPN,S,
    I to have not been here in many months and just dropped in to see what everyone was up to! Well, i to got sucked into the whole RN-LPN mess at one time on this BB and found that Suzy was okay after all, I have learned a great deal since. I have found that whether you are an RN or LPN it doesnt matter, just be the best nurse you can BE and leave the gripping, lazy, good fornothing, self pitting, whiney, HOSPITAL LIABILITY nurses to SIT or LAY in their own MISERY! Because where ever you work there will always be someone that just EEEERRRKKKSSS you to death and when given attention for it, they only get worse. Ignore them it really gets on their nerves.
    Anyway Brownms46,
    dont you work in washington state?
    I am moving in 1 week to the Bellingham area and wanted to know how LPN,s are treated there? What are they allowed to do ? Can you or anyone else answer these questions for me?
    Thanks Alicia
  4. by   Brownms46
    Originally posted by theboss
    Hey Fellow LPN,S,
    I to have not been here in many months and just dropped in to see what everyone was up to! Well, i to got sucked into the whole RN-LPN mess at one time on this BB and found that Suzy was okay after all, I have learned a great deal since. I have found that whether you are an RN or LPN it doesnt matter, just be the best nurse you can BE and leave the gripping, lazy, good fornothing, self pitting, whiney, HOSPITAL LIABILITY nurses to SIT or LAY in their own MISERY! Because where ever you work there will always be someone that just EEEERRRKKKSSS you to death and when given attention for it, they only get worse. Ignore them it really gets on their nerves.
    Anyway Brownms46,
    dont you work in washington state?
    I am moving in 1 week to the Bellingham area and wanted to know how LPN,s are treated there? What are they allowed to do ? Can you or anyone else answer these questions for me?
    Thanks Alicia
    Hi Alicia,

    Long time no see post.... Good to see your back...!

    I agree with you on the ignore them part! And I was in Washington, but now...in Texas...Corpus Christi to be exact. I have SIX more weeks to go on this contract...and having a hard time making myself stay here! Anywho...as far as Washington is concerned...it really depends on the hospital you're working at. There are hospitals were you take your own pts, and there are hospitals where you're the PCA...Patient Care Assistant! Then there are those that want their cake and eat it too! You can do everything including IVP meds...and the RN does the assessments...ONLY!! Washington is a very difficult place to get a contract in if you're an LPN...and totally depends on how desperate they are. But as far as Bellingham is concerned....I know very little...except I do know they have been doing a lot of advertising for LPNs online with several companies. Are you going on Contract or just moving their on your own?? I spent 4yrs in Washington, and only enjoyed working at a very few hospitals there. If you ever have a chance to work at Group Health Hospital in Belleuve, Wa. TAKE IT! I ALWAYS enjoyed working there...as I was always treated well...and would go back anytime! PM me if you ever have a question about Seattle area, Central Washington, or Spokane hospitals. But Bellingham is somewhere I would have liked to have gone to, but not with the companies that had the contracts at the time. I have heard Bellingham is a very beautiful area.
  5. by   maah
    As for LPNs being left out. For two years myself and a fellow LPN ran a 42 bed last stage Alzheimer Unit. We did Charge, Meds, and Treatments most of the time all three jobs alone. Yet we were told that the facility was looking for a RN to run the floor. We had 3 RNs try to do it and failed. Last I knew they were still trying to get a RN that could handle the job. I was let go from my job a couple of years ago do to a disability. I feel that us LPNs can alot of times out do a RN. As one of my Instructed stated, years ago,"most RNs are book smart. LPNs are bed smart, or clinically smart" So we are definitely being left out. SOmeone asked me one time recently if a LPN was like a Nurse's Aide. We need to get there and show the public that we are NURSES also.
  6. by   fairykisses
    hi everyone! i am new to this site. i feel it is true lvn's get left out. i was working in l&d as an lvn. they treated me as a tech. the only real nursing thing i got to do was insert iv's and foleys.after a couple, it gets old. the unit used pagers to communicate. i seen the secratary paging another nurse and i saw my name in the computer. next to it, it said aid.It bad because they don't see you as a nurse, because for 12 hours you don't even have an assignment. you wait around the whole shift and do all the dirty work. clean up the mom and the room and stuff like that. well anyways that was my experience, but i have resigned from that position, and work somewhere now where they really use me as a nurse!!!
  7. by   NurseRatchett
    I'm so glad I found this site!!!! A place to voice my little "LVN" concerns.......
    I do feel left out sometimes. I live in California, and a lot of people turn their noses down on you when they find out you're "just" an LVN, and the next question after that insult is "Are you going to finish your nursing career?" I enjoy what I do because I make a difference. However small it is! What irks me is when people think you and an M.A are the same thing. Maybe I'm being a snob, but I worked too damn hard to become an LVN!

    I crammed for boards, got up early to go to clinicals, learned etiology and pathology, drugs, classifications, sacrificed time away from my family to do this, etc. I was trained to think like a nurse, whether it be LVN or RN. What i have learned so far is the difference between LVN and RN differ from facility to facility. If they're desperate enough, you can do everything an RN can do with the exception of pushing meds IV.........if they have more than enough staff, then you have to do the jobs nobody wants (emptying bed pans/urinals, bed baths, feeding, filing papers).
  8. by   KaroSnowQueen
    WHY is it so hard to go from LPN to RN? THAT is my question? It's like nursing wants you to stay an LPN and not further your degree without a lot of pain and misery.
    I graduated from LPN school twenty years ago. No bridge program will accept ANYTHING I learned then, there is no testing out in any of them I have investigated. I have to take EVERYTHING all over.
    Two schools do LPNs and RNs both, the pre-reqs are exactly the same. The LPN school is billed as one year, it is twelve months. The RN is billed as two years, but if you count out the summer semester, which they don't go, and the LPNs do, it is only eighteen months.
    And to require me to take anatomy again, did the basics of anatomy change that much in twenty years??? I seriously doubt it. And English composition????? I took it and aced it without much thought - is all this crap necessary?????
    WHY isn't there a place to go and test out and get an RN based on experience. I truly feel that after twenty years as an LPN I know more than a new ADN, not meant in a malicious way, but based on the fact that I have experienced many situations and the new grad is mostly book-learning.
    And the difference in LPNs is from state to state. One state I am licensed in, I can do just about anything, haven't run across anything yet that I can't do. The other state says don't do this and this and this and it seems so mickey mouse. PLEASE!!! If I can take the same patients as an RN why can't I do these procedures that I have done for years in the other state? And another neighboring state won't even let LPNs take MD orders, not even in LTC. I don't get it.
    At this point, I have lost most of my interest in getting my Rn and am seriously considering what else I can do using my nursing background yet get out of the nurse rut.
  9. by   tmoorelpn
    I know what you're saying. Because I have two young sons, I decided that I would do things slow and do a little at a time. So I went for my LPN and then thought that I would do my RN later. Well, now I find out that there's at least a three year waiting list for the accelerated RN program at my local college which would cost me $2,500. I do have other choices. I can pay $10,000/year and take several more pre-reqs and get accepted quickly into a bachelor degree program or I can pay $8,500/year and at least 7 pre-reqs and get my associate's degree. It's irritating because I was told when I decided to go into the LPN program that I would have no problems getting into the ADN/RN program, I was told the same thing on graduation day. At this point, I'm not even sure that I want to go on.
    I've heard the "just a LPN" comment too many times and every time that I hear it I just want to start slapping. I'm "just" nothing. I graduated at the top of my class, I graduated with honors and I'm a very competent nurse and have done very well being a new nurse. I did clinicals in school right along side of ADN and BSN students and who did they come to with questions when they couldn't find their instructor? Me... "just the LPN". More education doesn't make them better nurses. And it's assumed that the LPN classes are easy which just infuriates me because no nursing program is as intense and condensed as LPN programs are. I have friends who went through LPN classes and then went on for their RN who said that the LPN classes were much, much harder than the RN classes were.
    Like i said, I'm not sure I want to continue on. I really don't see much point. It won't make me a better nurse than what I all ready am, I have no intentions of doing anything but LTC and the LPN jobs in LTC are many. I get at least one to two calls per week asking if I'm looking for a job. I'm not worried about not having a job as a LPN so I'm starting to question why I wanted to go on in the first place. I think honestly it was because I, at first, had the mindset that I didn't want to be "just a LPN". And I'm not in nursing for the money so...
    Thanks for the opportunity to vent :angryfire




    Quote from KaroSnowQueen
    WHY is it so hard to go from LPN to RN? THAT is my question? It's like nursing wants you to stay an LPN and not further your degree without a lot of pain and misery.
    I graduated from LPN school twenty years ago. No bridge program will accept ANYTHING I learned then, there is no testing out in any of them I have investigated. I have to take EVERYTHING all over.
    Two schools do LPNs and RNs both, the pre-reqs are exactly the same. The LPN school is billed as one year, it is twelve months. The RN is billed as two years, but if you count out the summer semester, which they don't go, and the LPNs do, it is only eighteen months.
    And to require me to take anatomy again, did the basics of anatomy change that much in twenty years??? I seriously doubt it. And English composition????? I took it and aced it without much thought - is all this crap necessary?????
    WHY isn't there a place to go and test out and get an RN based on experience. I truly feel that after twenty years as an LPN I know more than a new ADN, not meant in a malicious way, but based on the fact that I have experienced many situations and the new grad is mostly book-learning.
    And the difference in LPNs is from state to state. One state I am licensed in, I can do just about anything, haven't run across anything yet that I can't do. The other state says don't do this and this and this and it seems so mickey mouse. PLEASE!!! If I can take the same patients as an RN why can't I do these procedures that I have done for years in the other state? And another neighboring state won't even let LPNs take MD orders, not even in LTC. I don't get it.
    At this point, I have lost most of my interest in getting my Rn and am seriously considering what else I can do using my nursing background yet get out of the nurse rut.
  10. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Rebadee, who originally posted this poem on the AOL LPN message board, says, "The original, that was about black not liking white and vice versa, and rich not liking poor, one religion not liking another etc., was an old poem from the early 60s, I believe, and the author was 'unknown'. I changed it up to fit the nursing arguments that have been appearing on the boards. I can't take credit for the overall theme of the poem."


    *SEVEN NURSES*
    contributed by Rebadee
    Seven nurses trapped by happenstance
    In the dark and bitter cold.
    Each one possessed a stick of wood,
    Or so the story's told.
    Their dying fire in need of logs,
    The first nurse held hers tight.
    For on the faces around the fire,
    Was that's a nurse who works at night.
    The night nurse looking cross the way,
    Saw one not of her shift,
    And wouldn't give her stick of wood
    To give the fire a lift.
    The third nurse noticed in the group
    One that wanted to unionize,
    "Why should I use my stick of wood
    To warm someone I despise?"
    The management nurse sat in deep thought,
    (Her mind not on the fire)
    Of ways to stretch this small staff
    Without having to hire.
    The LPN's face bespoke revenge
    as the fire passed from sight,
    For all she saw in her stick of wood
    Was a chance for spite tonight.
    The nurse with the BSN sat and watched
    As the fire began to dim.
    "My degree is more important than his
    I'll put mine in after him."
    The last nurse of this forlorn group
    Did naught except for gain
    Giving only to those who gave
    Was how he played the game.
    The logs held tight in death's still hands
    Was proof of how we sin.
    They didn't die from the cold without,
    They died from--THE COLD WITHIN.
  11. by   tiona
    Quote from nurseratchett
    I'm so glad I found this site!!!! A place to voice my little "LVN" concerns.......
    I do feel left out sometimes. I live in California, and a lot of people turn their noses down on you when they find out you're "just" an LVN, and the next question after that insult is "Are you going to finish your nursing career?" I enjoy what I do because I make a difference. However small it is! What irks me is when people think you and an M.A are the same thing. Maybe I'm being a snob, but I worked too damn hard to become an LVN!

    I crammed for boards, got up early to go to clinicals, learned etiology and pathology, drugs, classifications, sacrificed time away from my family to do this, etc. I was trained to think like a nurse, whether it be LVN or RN. What i have learned so far is the difference between LVN and RN differ from facility to facility. If they're desperate enough, you can do everything an RN can do with the exception of pushing meds IV.........if they have more than enough staff, then you have to do the jobs nobody wants (emptying bed pans/urinals, bed baths, feeding, filing papers).
    YAY! Another Californian! Where in California do you live? I live in the Sierra Foothills, went to school in Sacramento and am currently ANXIOUSLY awaiting my Nclex result. When I went back to school 2 years ago LVN's were being recruited by acute care hospitals like crazy. Now we are being actively pushed out, at least in the Sacramento area. I'm proud of all the hard work and hours I devoted to become an LVN, but now it is almost embarrassing to admit that I'm "just" an LVN. Clinical was especially difficult, because we were LVN students training in acute care hospitals that were laying off their LVN's. Needless to say, the RN's often asked what the heck we were doing there anyway, and many treated us like dirt. Our hospitals pay big bucks to hire traveling RN's, while the unions work hard to keep us out of the new "safe staffing law" count. They wording of the legislation makes it clear that we do in fact count in the ratio, but the RN's are fighting amazingly hard to keep us away, even having marched on the Capitol. I guess I wouldn't want to lose a 6 figure salary either, but what about patient safety and cost containment issues? I don't know about you, but my health insurance increases about $80 each year. Many seasoned nurses draw a larger salary than new physicians, especially in places like Kaiser.

    Now, as I'm looking at employment opportunities (I'm interested in home health) the ads always say 1 year of acute care experience required. Well, that ain't gonna happen in my neck o' the woods. I am hopeful that the tides will turn. Any input from you would be appreciated. BTW, I really "just" want to be an LVN. I'm constantly advised to go for my RN. I'm a little old to spend another couple of years in school. I don't need to make big bucks, and I enjoy hands on patient care. I just wish I could find a welcoming climate.
  12. by   MickyB-RN
    Now what do you think I did before I called the doctor or sent a resident to the hospital...sometimes it makes you wonder what people are thinking....the same group of people that say I can't assess are the very ones who would be reviewing my license if I didn't properly assess my residents.>>

    Yes, it does seem to be a matter of semantics.



    Kelly
  13. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    When I was an LPN (for 8 years), I was treated wonderfully, as an equal, by the majority of RNs whom I worked with. Of course, there was the occasional wacked-out power tripping RN, but you will find that with every occupation, at every level.

    I've gone from CNA to LPN to RN. Here are the main differences I find beween every level.

    CNA- job is physically hard. You are responsible only for your own work and performance. When you are done with your shift- you're done. No worrying about what was missed, no taking any paper-work home, no staying over to chart, and certainly no missing breaks and lunches.

    LPN- job is physically, socially, mentally hard. You are now responsible for the work, actions and performance of not only yourself, but all staff under you and for all pts in your care. The RN is responsible for your actions, performance, etc. If you have a problem or concern, and you are unsure of what to do, inform the RN. She is now responsible for it. You can go on to other things.

    RN- job is physically, socially, mentally and politically hard. You are now responsible for the actions and performance of everyone around you- and for all pt outcomes, annoyed "customers" and their relatives. Balancing being responsible for everyone and everything with maintaining positive relations with those whom you are responsible for can be tricky. The docs are *supposed* to be ultimately responsible for the pts, but they are not physically on the premesis for more than a few minutes a day. You are now ultimately responsible for everything that does or does not occur while you are on the premesis.

    Being charge nurse is a stressor/burden I can certainly do without- it is not at all worth the extra buck an hour I get to do it.

    The atvantages of being an RN over being an LPN (strictly in my own opinion and experiences)-

    1. Pay increased by $5.00 an hr.
    2. My clinical opinions and concerns are listened to a little bit more than they were as an LPN.
    3. No one ever says "Are you going to get your RN?" anymore.
    4. Being treated as a more "legitimate" nurse.
    5. Being legally considered a professional.

    Disatvantages:
    1. Being responsible and held accountable for the bad actions or inactions of others. but, nothing is ever mentioned when things go well.
    2. Constantly hearing "We do the same job as the RN, we should get paid the same" from people who only know part of what I do and am responsible for.
    3. People frequently saying "Aren't you going to get a bachelor's degree?"
    4. Frequently hearing about how ADN RNs are "on the way out"- a BSN should be the minimum standard education for nurses.
    5. Frequently being the only RN in the building- there is no one else to go to if there is a problem or concern. I had better come up with the right answer, and act on it, NOW.

    Was it worth it? I say yes. Was my ADN program more academically difficult than my LPN? No. It was, however, far more politically difficult. And more time consuming.
    Did going to RN school teach me how to be an RN? No. Working as an RN did that.

    Am I appreciative, grateful and thankful to be working with the great LPNs that I work with? Do I learn from them, and they from me?

    Are we all Nurses?

    Heck, YES.

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