Do you feel the LVN/Lpn Is being left out in the nursing profession? - page 4

Alot of the issue lately being brought up in the senate concerns RNs do you feel the Lpn/Lvn is being left out in the issues presented?... Read More

  1. by   LoisJean
    Nurse Jenni posted on the General Discussion BB: she had to vent and I don't blame her. This is like connecting the dots- read her post and see where she ultilized her float LPN. In her post I could see lots of dots but could connect only one. How's come?

    I have had it up to my keister in this. Since when is the LPN not a viable part of the nursing order? Since when are we not capable and able to perform and function in those clinical areas where we have been trained or are deserving by right of license of being trained. When was it that the role of the LPN as the RNs 'right hand man' was diminished and in many areas taken away outright? Doesn't this just make you a wee bit miffed? It does me. This has nothing to do with the LPN working as an RN: this has to do with what happened to the LPN as the RN's agent.

    It insenses me that I outht to 'go back and get my RN' so that I can be more, do more, make more. This was not always the way. When I began my nursing practice these issues didn't exist- now they do and without my permission- just cut off right at the ankles!

    There is not a shortage of nurses. There is a miserable misuse of nurses in the area of utilization. There are so many reasons for this-(State Boards of Nursing being just one), that it boggles the mind....does mine, anyway. As far as the NFLPN goes: where are the inroads? Where have we, as a national group of nurses, seen any ELEVATION in our status? I should not have to go back to nursing school to be able to do the things that I was originally trained to do in order to be counted as a viable colleague within the nursing partnership. But that's not the way it is anymore, is it?

    As for my colleague in Tawas: I live in Hillman. I need LPNs right now in your area to help me out in my expanding home care business. These nurses would be working for themselves- contracting there services. If you know of any LPNs in your area who would like some part time work email me--I will send you info as to what we do and the counties where we need the help.

    Let me say that for the past seven years the ownership of my own business has been the most rewarding work I've had. Not because my previous nursing experiences weren't great, but because I don't deal anymore with the outright ostracizing that seems to appear the minute an LPN comes on to the nursing scene; and while this may not be the case in all areas all the time, I sense that in time it will be...unless LPNs become willing to stand up and demand to be counted as genuine members of the nursing community.
  2. by   JMP
    I have said this before- and will say it again.......around here (granted I am a Canadian) LPN's have 2 choices- home health or long term care. HOSPITALS DO NOT USE THEM- at least not in my neck of the woods. Excuse me.....one part of the hospital does- the long term care floor (AKA rehab) WHY? Because the pts are predictable and stable with predicatable outcomes.
    That is the way the standards of practice work around here.

    So it only goes to reason that if you want more CHOICE.......more latitude, the ability to make more money......then honey, get your RN. IF you don't and want to work in home health or LTC......great. THen being a LPN is the way to go.

    As some of you know, I have been both. I work in a large teaching hospital that uses primary nursing. One RN has total responsiblity for 5 or 6 pts. It is a surgical floor with a step down unit on it. Busy, hetic and HIGH acuity of pts. Meaning, LPNs could not work here in a primary nursing enviroment.

    I went back and got my RN- took me three years and lots of work- but I have never..ever looked back. Everyone in life has choices and I just wanted more choices to choose from!
  3. by   HarvestREAPER4U

    In 1979, when I recieved my diploma as a Practical Nurse, I was very excited!
    I had been trained to providewholistic bedside nursing care.
    I could anticipate needs based on clinical data as well a general psychology.
    I had been trained to monitor: vital signs, IV infusion rates (using drip method not a pump) wound sites ( making note of signs of infection, drainage, odor), check for placement of an NG tube and deliver NG feedngs. I had been trained in ascepric technique, and could with all confidence, insert and remove an indwelling foley catheter, change a surgical dressing, safely administer medications using "the five R's", and the list goes on and on.
    For what I could see, Intravenous insertion and administration of IV fluids was the only thing not in my "scope of practice". Some hospitals did train LPN's to do IV interventions.
    I do think that the LNA has taken over where the LPN would be better put to use. The RN's would be free to do more, if todays hospitals would incorporate and return the use of LPN's as the bedside caregiver. While we are not technically trained to make nursing asessments and evaluations, we can do the hands on tasks and report our findings to the RN (the way we did 20yrs ago) and the RN would do the follow up. (not enough room to spout)
  4. by   JMP
    Refering to above post:

    STudy after study has shown that primary nursing care is better for the pt. and nurse.
    Being "trained" to do a skill..... well just does not cut it today. You need the assessment skills and critical thinking skills that go along with the tech. skills.

    Nurses today are not "trained" they are educated. This is what has changed in the last 20 years or so.

    I graduated as a practical nurse in the mid 80's and today's scene demands a solid, well-rounded degree nurse.

    This is, of course, my own personal opinion. It is, also, the trend today. I could be wrong, but I don't believe , from what I have seen that a shortage would change the reality.
  5. by   tamdsandlin
    I have been a LVN since 1999. I was 2 months away from graduating with my ADN and had to quite re: finacial reasons. There was really nothing new that I learned in the ADN program that I had'nt already learned in LVN school. Its just more community based stuff. I can do anything that an "RN" can do its just that I'm single with no children and my parents have always made too much money for me to get any finacial aide or grants and I can't afford to go to school!! It is really annoying when your working somewhere and you have your own patients. You are doing everything that needs to be done for your pts and you can't take a phone order for them!! I'm very strong in IVs and central lines and it really upsets me that I am not allowed to draw 5cc of blood from a central line on one of my pts for lab!! At the hosp. where I used to work LVN could not draw blood from central lines. But we could administer possible life-threatening medications via central line????? It does'nt make sense. My LVN school was very good. We went into great detail about EVERYTHING. My class of 40 passes state boards 100%. It almost makes me feel stupid when I can't do these things for my pts, when I know I'm very capable!!
  6. by   tamdsandlin
    I went to school only a couple of years ago and we were taught how to make nursing assessments and evaluations! LVN/LPN and RNs should ALL know how to do that and be able to do that! I also feel IV insertion and fluid administration is within my scope of practice. A nurse (LVN/RN) should have critical thinking skills and be capable of performing these tasks. If they are not, maybe they should'nt be a nurse. I believe that whatever facility you work at should briefly train you and make sure you are capable of performing these things, if not then hire someone else or provide training till you feel confident.
  7. by   medpuppies
    I graduated in 1976. What a year that was. Now look, 26 some years later I feel as those 26 years of experience should count for something. Within those years I have learned so much. After being told by many of my superiors that I should not waste my talents, I attempted to return to school. It comes down to this. Either I am ready to make the sacrifices that go with rerurning to the classroom or continue what I am doing the rest of my life. The RN from Canada is right. We as LPN's (myself included) have the choice to get educated or continue doing the two things she says we are equiped to do. Both are stable jobs, less money, and can sometimes be rewarding. Not much can go wrong or can it? Think about it. The person with the most to loose, while they make more money, they also carry the most responcibility. Although I am self educated (meaning I have the questioning mind) I am no closer to my desire to be a CDE (Certified Diabetes Educator). I must follow all of the others before me. I must recognize that the bar has been raised and I have the choice to endure or give up and be complacent. I guess I have just talked myself into getting over the "being scared" part. Thanks for allowing me to vent. I must also tell you of a field were LPN's are coming into their own. Hospice Nursing. I have gained so much respect and admiration for this profession. Again, there you are in a long term setting. The difference is this: nothing stays the same and there are always changes. Things are not stable there. Flo
  8. by   realnursealso/LPN
    I AM NOT LEFT OUT! This seems to be a regional problem. I live in upstate NY. Their are jobs, jobs, jobs, advertised everyday for all areas of nursing where I live for LPN's. I am a homecare nurse...I do high tech peds ...kids with trachs, on vents, with feeding tubes- mickeys and g-tubes. I am good at what I do and in constant demand at my agency. If I wanted, I could become employed at the large level one trauma center about 30 miles from my home. Every Sunday they have a huge ad, advertising for LPN's. I worked there a couple of years ago...but couldn't cope with 3-11...just not my time of day to work. I was taught alot of new things while I worked there. Blood draws, starting IV's, and was about to start their med course to pass meds on the rehab floor where I worked. The meds are all done by LPN's. How could I feel left out when I have so many possibilites to explore if I ever wanted to do another type of nursing. Have a good day...Colleen (The rehab floor was not long term care.)
  9. by   clive
    Hi guys, I am an LPN who is bridging to get my RN. I love being an LPN but it seems to get anywhere you have to have your RN. I want to work in ICU and most hospitals you must be an RN. I think that LPN's are definitely left out of the loop. I think we are just as skilled as the RN's.
  10. by   clive
    Hi guys, I am an LPN who is bridging to get my RN. I love being an LPN but it seems to get anywhere you have to have your RN. I want to work in ICU and most hospitals you must be an RN. I think that LPN's are definitely left out of the loop. I think we are just as skilled as the RN's.
  11. by   nur20
    Originally posted by Mimiboop
    After taking a break-- if you want to call it that-working agency for a bit-i did not do hardly any paper work, but now that i am back-i noticed that we can no longer just take a VTO!!or from a doctor-well we do, they bend the rules i assume--i have taken orders, but it is suppose to be co-signed by the RN on duty ? please tellme what this is? iam confused? how long has this been going on? i was only away from the paperwork about 1 year and half-the RN and unit clerk was doing this paper work-i do now it the way i ALWAYS have done it--taken the order and transcibe it on the MAR or TAR-or whatever we had to do.
    I am a bit confused being new on this unit at this place--orientaion was really not much of anthing!LOL
    I do feel that by things likethis we are getting lower on the ladder--i agree.If anyone knows wehn or why this happened to the LPN regarding not being alloewd to take VTO please tell me--
    Peace and love, Marianne
    *lost my reading glassess this evening on my long term unit-sorry if type-o's!
    Here we go again. They have been trying o downsize or get rid of L.P.N.'s as long as i can remember. Ladies it can't be done especially in light of the severe nurses shortage.Most R.N.'s would like administration work.They can never convince me that i'm not a valuable part of the team, if not one place, definitely another.Some places that did eliminate L.P.N.'s are reversing the decision.
  12. by   nur20
    Originally posted by grandmanurse1
    I am an LPN in Florida. I am real confused about what and why LPN's can do certain things and not others....With a 30 hour course I can start/hang IVs (even to a central line). I can determine one of my patients is in distress, call the doctor, tell him my patient is in distress and take orders from him. I can determine that this person is in distress in a facility where there are 120 patients and 3-4 LPNs working per shift (an RN is only required 8 hours a day). I can even relay the information that I feel a resident is in poor enough condition to require transfer to an acute care facility.(or in an emergency, transfer and then notify the physician). I am allowed to be a charge nurse (new law) and to supervise other staff. I am expected to help develope the plan of care for our residents. But, I can not sign a fall risk ASSESSMENT. In Florida, LPNs cannot assess. Now what do you think I did before I called the doctor or sent a resident to the hospital...sometimes it makes you wonder what people are thinking....the same group of people that say I can't assess are the very ones who would be reviewing my license if I didn't properly assess my residents. Just venting.....
    WAY TO GO GIRL, THEY ARE NOT FOOLING ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. i KNOW HOW VALUABLE YOU ARE.WE HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS,WE HAVE ADMINISTRATION ABILITY PLUS WE CAN GET DOWN AND DIRTY WITH OUR SLEEVES ROLLED UP !!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THE MOVEMENT TO DISMISS L.P.N.'S HAS NEVER WORKED.AND OH BOY, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO NOW WITH THE MAJOR MONEY CRUNCH AND THE SEVERE NURSES SHORTAGE.kEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
    Last edit by nur20 on Sep 25, '01
  13. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    Originally posted by JMP
    Refering to above post:

    STudy after study has shown that primary nursing care is better for the pt. and nurse.
    Being "trained" to do a skill..... well just does not cut it today. You need the assessment skills and critical thinking skills that go along with the tech. skills.

    Nurses today are not "trained" they are educated. This is what has changed in the last 20 years or so.

    I graduated as a practical nurse in the mid 80's and today's scene demands a solid, well-rounded degree nurse.

    This is, of course, my own personal opinion. It is, also, the trend today. I could be wrong, but I don't believe , from what I have seen that a shortage would change the reality.
    JMP,
    I have read in some of our postings where you repeatedly claim that LPNs are "Trained" & that RNs are "Educated" plus taught to "Think critically". I find that you seem to have either a bone against LPNs, even though you say that you once was one. I have to wonder; is your current attitute this way because you were treated with the same distainment by RNs while you were a LPN? Now it's your turn to turn to look down now that you're a RN?

    I have been a LPN for six years and have worked in a variety of positions from working in a traditional hospital, doctors' office, LTC facility, & in the US Army Reserve. I've made steps in becoming a RN. I've enrolled in a PA BSN program & honestly can say that the difference in the "Education" at this institution is that I have other elective courses, pathophysicology, & the college level A&P has a lab. From where I stand, I have not seen anything new or different from what I've seen during my LPN Med/Surg course/clinical rotations. In fact, my course/clinical experience during LPN school out rank the course/clinical experience that I currently have now. Then I had four days clinical to the now two days of clinicals. Some of my classmates scare me because they've never had any prior clinical exposure and my school has just rush them through the program. Their main focus throughout the program has been practicing taking the NCLEX test. If you ask me, it's all about the universities & SBONs making the big bucks!!! People want to play with words: i.e. RNs assess, LPNs gather data; RNs think critically, LPNs think about; RNs suppose to anticipate, where LPNs are suppose to expect or foresee. If you ask me, it's just a play on words!

    The school that I currently attend unfortunately doesn't have a LPN-BSN program but it is looking into perhaps starting one in the future; but for now, I have to go through their program as a "Generic" nursing student. I don't know about you but it's quite frustrating to say the least when you have to sit in class, as a LPN, while the rest of the students have to catch-up to your level of course/clincial experience. You can imagine my frustration when my instructor has to check off my skills on taking vital signs. Some of my clinical instructors have even asked me to assist them in showing some of my classmates how to do things; yet my LPN experience doesn't even count for anything offically. I was once told by a RN instructor at my current school that "Any baboon can be trained to be a LPN"; but I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate a MD saying "Any baboon can be educated to be a RN". See my point? :imbar

    By the way, Doctors are "Trained" in their field of specialty; just try to tell them that they're not "Educated" O.K.
    Do you hear such squabbling between MDs, DOs, & PAs? NO....because they all belong to the AMA and stand united against us nurses. Why do you think they can get things done for them politically.

    I just would appreiciate it if you would be a little more sensitive with your choice of wording when it comes to criticizing or voicing your opion about us LPNs because it does sound like you're looking down......Thank You

close