Do you feel the LVN/Lpn Is being left out in the nursing profession? - page 3

Alot of the issue lately being brought up in the senate concerns RNs do you feel the Lpn/Lvn is being left out in the issues presented?... Read More

  1. by   grandmanurse1
    I am an LPN in Florida. I am real confused about what and why LPN's can do certain things and not others....With a 30 hour course I can start/hang IVs (even to a central line). I can determine one of my patients is in distress, call the doctor, tell him my patient is in distress and take orders from him. I can determine that this person is in distress in a facility where there are 120 patients and 3-4 LPNs working per shift (an RN is only required 8 hours a day). I can even relay the information that I feel a resident is in poor enough condition to require transfer to an acute care facility.(or in an emergency, transfer and then notify the physician). I am allowed to be a charge nurse (new law) and to supervise other staff. I am expected to help develope the plan of care for our residents. But, I can not sign a fall risk ASSESSMENT. In Florida, LPNs cannot assess. Now what do you think I did before I called the doctor or sent a resident to the hospital...sometimes it makes you wonder what people are thinking....the same group of people that say I can't assess are the very ones who would be reviewing my license if I didn't properly assess my residents. Just venting.....
  2. by   night owl
    grandmanurse1,

    i'm just as confused as you are, but again, it all depends on the policy at your place of employment. in one facility, you are allowed to do certain proceedures, and in another, you may not be able to do the same things. why does it all have to be this way? why can't we just do what we were taught in school in all facilities? that probably contributes to some of the confusion. if we could just practice universally under the same standards of practice everywhere, people wouldn't go (so called) beyond their scope of practice. it's only beyond if the institution's policy says it is. why then are we taught in school to insert ng tubes only to work in one facility that says we can't and then in another facility that says yeah, go ahead, it's fine. this is as i see it...if the standards of practice in the state i'm working in says that we as lpn's can do yada, yada, yada, then we should be allowed to perform all yadas in all facilities in that state and not have to worry about each facilities policy. in other words, as long as we know our scope of practice in our state of employment, and work within that scope,why should these facilities tell us we are not allowed to perform certain tasks? actually, it should be a standard practice that we be allowed to perform every proceedure that we were taught and learned in school, in every state and in every institution. am i right??? what is the politics in taking care of those in need? there shouldn't be any politics in taking care of the sick, the injured or the infirmed? what's good for one state should be good for all states. color]
  3. by   grandmanurse1
    Following policy and procedure is all well and fine....if you have good policies and procedures... the last management company that managed us had a superb set of policies and procedures...they told how to do everything, who could do it and when you could do it, etc....now we are being managed by another company...and their policies and procedures are awful...they rarely tell you who should do something and are very vague on the how.... Being a unit manager for 3 years, I know how to look at p&P....and back as a floor nurse, I know they offer little guidance or protection....and ours is a multi-state management company, so what may be okay in one state is not okay in ours, etc. ...when we complain we are told they are working on it...for over a year now....changing jobs is not really an option since I live in a small town and make $26.65 an hour.
  4. by   night owl
    grandmanurse1,

    this new multi-state management co. has no policy and proceedure documentation established for over a year and are still working on it? seems to me that they had better work alot faster! i think p&p do offer much guidance and protection if only you had p&p to go by. i would call the fla. state board of nursing and find out where you stand in this matter. this is just my opinion, but i would be scared to work in a facility where i had no guide-lines to follow. like i said our scope of practice should be universal in all facilities, but unfortunately they are not. if you don't have an option to change jobs, then i'd be extremely careful as to what proceedures i would be doing. your license is on the line here in almost every move you make until you know for sure exactly what you're allowed to do. pt. care , meds and tx's for me until further notice. nothing invasive like iv's, foley's, ngt's or changing a gt.
    one miss move, and you all could be finished, including the co.!

    please do your homework and find out where you stand. when you find out, you may feel alittle more comfortable or you may not. then you can decide where to go from there. $26.65 an hour is alot to lose and if you don't want to lose it, then be careful, please...

    nurse manager for three years? is that like a head nurse or charge nurse? charge nurse i can see. head nurse? i'm not sure...
  5. by   grandmanurse1
    In Florida I guess it is pretty strange...it's not the procedures we are uncertain about....foley's, ngt, iv's including central lines, etc. lpn's are allowed to do all of these....pretty much the only procedures that we are not allowed to do in the ltc setting is iv pushes, mixing iv meds, inserting midlines/piccs and pulling a picc...however it is the paperwork that has everyone tripped up....what paperwork are you allowed to do???...what assessments can you sign for???...say lpn's can't do assessments...but in reality they know we assess everytime we see our residents...it is the technicalities...example...cpr policy says that if in a nurses professional opinion crp is futile then it does not have to be initiated...that means that if an RN is not in the building we code anyone that is a full code, even if cold...but an RN could determine it was too late and not initiate CPR....and unit director...not a charge nurse....supervised staff of 15 nurses and about 50 cna's...like an adon position...state survey team aware and had no problem with lpn's in that position...
  6. by   davisll
    I personally think that LPN/LVN's are treated unprofessionably, at the current job I am in (a school nurse) even we have to report to an RN, we have our own schools but we have to be able to reach an RN in an emergency. Personally I think this has been one of the better jobs I have had regards to respect. I am also in the process of going back to school, not for the prestige but for the money. If I am going to do the same work as an RN I might as well get paid for it. Praise to all good nurses out there.
  7. by   justbegun
    I am currently a beginning RN student. I am currently a CNA. You all complain about being over looked, what do you think about us? I worked in a nursing home for 2 years. During that time, the CNAs did what I classify as all the hard work while the LPNs did nothing but passed out meds (when they felt like it) and made us feel like we were the gum stuck under their shoe. I think that at the particular atmosphere I worked in, if any one was getting the short end of the stick it would be the CNA. So I decided to go back to school to become an RN not for the so called prestige is brings but to be a voice for those that really get overlooked -CNAs. Correct me if I am wrong but at least a LPN has at least one or two organizations that can represent them and their needs. The CNA has nothing, then we are under paid. Not only have I had to clean up the mess that some of my patient's made, but also behind the "it's beneath me" LPNs that spill formula in the bed while trying to tube feed a patient. Or better yet the sloppy LPN who leaves the potentially infectious changed dressings lying in the patient's bed or on the floor. So stop whining, you guys don't have it as bad as you think. Band together and then maybe you can make a change.
  8. by   ucavalpn
    I am very sorry you have been treated badly by some LPN"s .
    I am an LPN and I can say I have never treated anyone this way . Please don't let others actions decide for you how all LPN'S are. I have worked with a lot of wonderful CNA's and I do feel most CNA's are hard working and underpaid . But just as with any group ,I have also seen some bad ones. People are people whatever their title.
    Good Luck to you in your RN studies .
  9. by   sharonpu
    Hi!
    I'm an LPN in the North Eastern section of NY. We are seven miles from the Vt. border.
    I have been working in Long term care facilities for two years now. From what I can see, the LPN's are running these facilities in both states. Except...we need and RN to pronounce a death. Can you imagine??? Like we can't tell if they are dead ourselves. I work side by side with RN's where I currently work, in Vermnnt. They do the same work as we LPN's do, of course, for more pay. We have a good working relationship with them also. Every nurse in our facility is trained to start IV's. So, I have to say, we are pretty lucky LPN's in Vermont. My pay is currently $16.45/hr.
  10. by   StirLady
    Originally posted by La8dyDi


    In my facility we are not allowed to make calls to the physicians or write orders. I have been an LPN for 25 years. Most of the RN's where I work do not have the experience I do but I am treated as if I am not even in the same profession!
    Let me be the first to invite you to Northeast MICHIGAN, specifically the Tawas'. We need experienced nurses to work with us. We, the full time nurses on the 2nd shift are all little practicing nurses or as a couple of our aides (not the bright ones) say the FAKE nurses. Either way we ignore the idiots who say these things. But this LTC is expanding to add 28 more beds and doesn't have enough of any nurses to cover all the shifts. Soooooooo........ come work with us!
  11. by   Lori-Emma
    LPN WHO? sure i feel like were forgotten, with all the yelling and screaming about the nursing shortage, is anyone doing anything to make it easier for LPN'S to be RN'S? No! I feel that an experienced LPN shoud be able to get their RN Degree easier, but no, most schools want us to repeat everything all over. Vietnam army medics were allowed to test for LPN boards, why can't an expeirenced LPN take an RN Board Exam?
  12. by   Dave123
    Hi there,

    I just wanted to ad my 2cents. I am a RN, but for 10 years I was a LPN and still hold a LPN in a state or two. LPNs can challenge in some states. I know for a fact you can in California, my RN instructor in RN school was horrified at this. Now I was an Army trained LPN and this might have something to do with it but look it up or give them a call.

    I can say that as an LPN I was always an outstanding nurse and often the RNs and Physicans would come to me for assistance on all the hard stuff but I could always tell that to them I was still just a "LPN". I found I always had to be twice thier better to be almost thier equal. Now bare in mind this is within the military enviorment where LPNs are termed "para-professionals". Short for almost a nurse.

    Heres what it boils down to, you can be thier better but you will never be thier equal. WHy because the "Nurse Mafia", ie... state boards are Rns making the rules. I can still remember sitting in class (RN school) on the last day thinking most of these people really stink, not because of thier lack of skills but because they believed LPNs and aids were basically there to do thier scut work and they knew more than a seasoned LPN ever would, why, because they were RNs.

    The day after I passed my RN NCLEX, a RN (kinda lazy one to) I had worked with for two years said "Congats and hello fellow nurse". She had never called me a nurse before only "Dave the LPN". It made me mad and I just told her "I was always a nurse, only my title has changed".

    So if you are a good, hardworking LPN please go on to get your RN, thats the only way things will change.

    Just my opinion
  13. by   jc4304
    Way to go Dave123. But in my experieinces, I have found it to be that only certain RN's with certain personalities treat anyone "under" them that way. I have too often have the great the great pleasure of working with some that were very respectful of LVN's and depended on them (and myself) quitely heavily at times. The unfortunate part of it was that even we LVN's had knowledge that they needed at the time, we still did not the pay we deserved to go with it.
    So many facilities (and other large corporations as well) are now depending on the a person to produce documents and credentials that prove their skills due to, at the least, so many law suits.
    Therefor, when you add RN to your name, the pay goes up, no matter what. I have had the fortune of breaking into areas of highly sought nursing and found I make very well in pay without having to go back to school for RN. They NEED us LVN's too much to do away with us, because many times it's way too costly for them to have an RN do the job that an LVN with a few "extra" credentials can do!!!!!!!By participating in a Pediatric program through and agency...and by becoming a CPR Instructor and also going to hands-on workshops for human tissue recovery and becoming an OSHA trainer.......I stayed an LVN!! I would not trade my years as an LVN for anything in the world!!
    Originally posted by Dave123
    Hi there,

    I just wanted to ad my 2cents. I am a RN, but for 10 years I was a LPN and still hold a LPN in a state or two. LPNs can challenge in some states. I know for a fact you can in California, my RN instructor in RN school was horrified at this. Now I was an Army trained LPN and this might have something to do with it but look it up or give them a call.

    I can say that as an LPN I was always an outstanding nurse and often the RNs and Physicans would come to me for assistance on all the hard stuff but I could always tell that to them I was still just a "LPN". I found I always had to be twice thier better to be almost thier equal. Now bare in mind this is within the military enviorment where LPNs are termed "para-professionals". Short for almost a nurse.

    Heres what it boils down to, you can be thier better but you will never be thier equal. WHy because the "Nurse Mafia", ie... state boards are Rns making the rules. I can still remember sitting in class (RN school) on the last day thinking most of these people really stink, not because of thier lack of skills but because they believed LPNs and aids were basically there to do thier scut work and they knew more than a seasoned LPN ever would, why, because they were RNs.

    The day after I passed my RN NCLEX, a RN (kinda lazy one to) I had worked with for two years said "Congats and hello fellow nurse". She had never called me a nurse before only "Dave the LPN". It made me mad and I just told her "I was always a nurse, only my title has changed".

    So if you are a good, hardworking LPN please go on to get your RN, thats the only way things will change.

    Just my opinion

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