Do LPNs Get the Respect They Deserve?

Nurses LPN/LVN

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ok, well, i am a pre-nursing student. i am waiting to see if i get accepted to an lpn program right now. i later plan on finishing up and getting my degree after i have worked as an lpn for awhile. since i have made this decision i have heard nothing but horror stories about how lpns are treated by rns.

the question shouold not be who has the most education but rather is everybody's education good enough to perform!

i know lpns right out of school that are tons more prepared than a variety of rns right out of school. again, it's not the price one pays for their education but the knowledge that individual extracts from that education.

there is no reason why an lpn can not assess a patient. there is no reason why an lpn can not hang blood products. there is no reason why an lpn can not hang tpn. there is no reason why an lpn.... these physiological consequences of each of these tasks is taught to lpns and they need to be... the rn will often run in spike the bag and leave. it's the lpn performing the nursing care and observation needed, not the rn that spiked the bag. same goes for iv push meds. the rn pushes and moves on, the lpn cares for and observes. and lpns do need to know what to do if "things" fail to go as planned. if lpns didn't, they never would have passed boards and never would have passed the napnes exam.

it's simply a way for the system to keep the lpns down.

Dixiedi - when I first came to this board i posted this thread....https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59993

oh what to do??? what to do.:confused:

xxoo

Kate

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hi guys... mod calling...

just letting you all know...

I'm going to cut this thread at or around 50 posts... its been hashed, and rehashed very many times. The horse has been kicked...

seriously though... it is an intriguing discussion, but, its been done between each and every level of nursing since they started-- may it be LPN vs ADN, ADN vs BSN, BSN vs MSN, MSN vs NP, NP vs PA vs MD. (yes, the last three are grouped.)

thank you.

Specializes in Med/Surg.

Hi, I am an LPN and have been for almost 2 years, all on a med/surg hospital unit. I have had a few bad experiences (I have heard the nice "but you're not a real nurse!" :angryfire ) but a lot of good ones as well. I have also never had any trouble finding a job and by the time our LPN class graduated 2 years ago, all of the 24 people I graduated with had jobs before graduation! Being an LPN has been very rewarding for me, I feel like I have had great opportunities so far in my career to help many of my patients. I am back in school now in an LPN to ASN program. One thing I will say is, it is VERY hard once you have graduated school to get yourself motivated to go back to school. As an LPN I already make fairly good money and I had to really push myself to go back and it has been hard. I probably wouldn't have gone back to school so soon, but my fiance and I are talking about starting a family soon, so I figured I would get the next phase of school out of the way before we do that. My advice to you would be, if you are 100% certain you want to be an RN, go ahead and do the RN program...just for the simple fact that it is very hard to get back into school once you are out...but if you need to get through school faster and don't mind making only 60-80% of what an RN makes (depending on where you work) then go for your LPN. Oh, and by the way...in the hospital I work in here in Indiana, the only thing I can not do is sign off my charts and do the initial assessment on a newly admitted patient. I can do IV pushes, blood transfusions, assessments, start IV's...etc...I don't think being an LPN has limited me clinically. Good luck! :)

ok, well, i am a pre-nursing student. i am waiting to see if i get accepted to an lpn program right now. i later plan on finishing up and getting my degree after i have worked as an lpn for awhile. since i have made this decision i have heard nothing but horror stories about how lpns are treated by rns.

we get shafted as nurses. when they talk about the nursing shortage, they don't even mention lpns and since you are not yet a nurse i know you can not answer these questions but i'll tell you know by the time you get out of school, you will be able to ansewr yes to them.

the usual difference between the duties of the lpn and rn are:

  1. the lpn may not assess the pt.

    1. does the lpn take classes in school on assessing the pt.
    2. does the lpn study and have clinicals practicing this art?
    3. does the lpn take nclex boards which includes pt evaluation and assessment?

      4. [*]the lpn may not write the care plan

      1. doesn't the lpn study care plans in school?
      2. doesn't the lpn study med-surg, peds, ob including multiple dx?
      3. doesn't the lpn take the nclex to prove her ability to understand care plans and the appropriateness of that plan?

      [*]the lpn may not hang blood products.

      1. does the lpn understand the blood, it's chemistry and function in the body?
      2. does the lpn understand the implications of lab tests? h&h, etc?
      3. does the lpn understand the vs when monitoring a pt on tx?

      [*]the lpn may not push iv meds.

      1. does the lpn take a course in pharmacology and have a thorough understanding of drug action and interaction.
      2. does the lpn pass the napnes or another exam in pharmacology which includes having knowledge of iv medications?

      [*]the lpn must work under the direction of an md, rn, dentist or podiatrist.

      1. not a problem. a staff rn can't give a tylenol without an order so what's the difference? they must work under the direction of a dr. even a nurse practitioner must work with/under an md.

      the rn should have a more understanding, however, that does not mean the lpn doesn't have a quality understanding which makes him/her perfectly capable of doing these things. besides, sticking the bag (or lock) is not the issue when these procedures are performed, it is monitoring the pt for action/reaction. and the rn who "sticks" is not the one doing these things. the lpn is.

      no, lpns get the shaft everytime. they should change our titles to "real nurses" and "little play nurse" tho i haven't been little for a lot of years.

I once had a patient apologize for waking me up ringing the call bell. She thought LVN meant 'live in' and RN was 'regular nurse'.

Truly my LVN program was much more difficult than RN.

Still in the two years of full time school taking pre requesites and second year ADN nursing classes I learned a lot.

Here in California LVNs start IVs and hang blood, contribute to the care plan and assessment.

Many experienced LVN/LPNs know as much about their unit as an RN but don't have the legal authority in THIS state.

I acute care inpatient facilities the RN is responsible for the entire nursing process. The LVN may not be supervised by the doctor who is not there most of the time.Implementation may be delegated to the LVN who may be more proficient at some procedures than the RN. We need the team.

I know an LVN who is better at difficult IV starts than I. I will clean up her patient so she can start an IV on the first try.

Many times patients tell a non RN caregiver what they don't tell the doctor or RN.

The problem is that hospitals want to use LVN/LPNs in place of RNs instead of as a team.

They don't pay these LVNs more for taking on the additional responsibilities!

I once had a patient apologize for waking me up ringing the call bell. She thought LVN meant 'live in' and RN was 'regular nurse'.

Truly my LVN program was much more difficult than RN.

Still in the two years of full time school taking pre requesites and second year ADN nursing classes I learned a lot.

Here in California LVNs start IVs and hang blood, contribute to the care plan and assessment.

Many experienced LVN/LPNs know as much about their unit as an RN but don't have the legal authority in THIS state.

I acute care inpatient facilities the RN is responsible for the entire nursing process. The LVN may not be supervised by the doctor who is not there most of the time.Implementation may be delegated to the LVN who may be more proficient at some procedures than the RN. We need the team.

I know an LVN who is better at difficult IV starts than I. I will clean up her patient so she can start an IV on the first try.

Many times patients tell a non RN caregiver what they don't tell the doctor or RN.

The problem is that hospitals want to use LVN/LPNs in place of RNs instead of as a team.

They don't pay these LVNs more for taking on the additional responsibilities!

Up here in Ohio these days hospitals don't want to hire LPNs because the nurse practice act has been, well it hasn't changed much, but the interpretation has been hard on the LPNs.

Ohio (and not ALL institutions) largely moved away from team nursing to promary nursing. I loved it, before I moved away for some time. When I came back, much of Ohio had changed towards LPNs.

I didn't mean to imply the MD had to be on the premices for the RN or LPN to do their job, only that "their has to be one on the case."

When I was in Fla in the mid 80s I was the charge nurse, LPN, and I did make the differential for that position. Lucky me I guess!

It's all a very difficult situation and it will keep getting worse unless ALL nurses, including those leading us who came from a university and believe in their heart that all nurses should be educated that way, get together and realize ALL experienced nurses can care for most patients.

Specializes in Registered Nurse.
We get shafted as nurses. When they talk about the nursing shortage, they don't even mention LPNs and since you are not yet a nurse I know you can not answer these questions but I'll tell you know by the time you get out of school, you will be able to ansewr yes to them.

The usual difference between the duties of the LPN and RN are:

No, LPNs get the shaft everytime. They should change our titles to "real nurses" and "little play nurse" tho I haven't been little for a lot of years.

LPNS do get shafted, I agree. But the education is not the same. If it were, we wouldn't have these discussions. We would all be RNs. Signed, Ex-LPN Liza, RN. :)

LPNS do get shafted, I agree. But the education is not the same. If it were, we wouldn't have these discussions. We would all be RNs. Signed, Ex-LPN Liza, RN. :)

I never said the educations are the same. They are comparable, but not the same.

However, just because educations are not the same does not mean the LPN should be treated as though she/he is not a nurse! Nor should we be treated as though we are not capable of caring for patients utilizing the nursing poccess.

Additional education, in-house if the hospital is big enough, should be required for the LPN to advance to a special care unit such as NICU or SICU. LPNs do not cover enough of this matierial in school to go there straight off. But what I am hearing from the nurses who do work these units, neither do the RNs.

Specializes in Registered Nurse.
I never said the educations are the same. They are comparable, but not the same.

However, just because educations are not the same does not mean the LPN should be treated as though she/he is not a nurse! Nor should we be treated as though we are not capable of caring for patients utilizing the nursing poccess.

Additional education, in-house if the hospital is big enough, should be required for the LPN to advance to a special care unit such as NICU or SICU. LPNs do not cover enough of this matierial in school to go there straight off. But what I am hearing from the nurses who do work these units, neither do the RNs.

I never said you said, etc.! LOL. But I have been both LPN and RN and I know that my education was different as a LPN. Even with years of experience as a LPN, I do know more after my RN program. The educations are not "comparable" in my opinion. Not saying there are not some intelligent and on the ball LPNs out there!...and there are some ditzy RNs too....granted. But there is a reason why LPNs and RNs have different licenses. It isn't just an oversight or whatever.

I never said you said, etc.! LOL. But I have been both LPN and RN and I know that my education was different as a LPN. Even with years of experience as a LPN, I do know more after my RN program. The educations are not "comparable" in my opinion. Not saying there are not some intelligent and on the ball LPNs out there!...and there are some ditzy RNs too....granted. But there is a reason why LPNs and RNs have different licenses. It isn't just an oversight or whatever.

I'll tell ya what. To be nurses, I just can't understand WHY it is so difficult to understand the jest of what I am saying. I did not say LPNs and RNS have the same education. Comparable yes, if you can't see that, I think you may have missed a lot in school.

ALL I am saying is there is no reason why LPNs can not work hand in hand and side by side with RNs. I have been the charge nurse in an acute care hospital, but I do agree that there needs to be an RN around. We need RNs for management and with the turn around in nursing to offer balance (broader education) when needed on the unit.

Don't read anything into what I say. I'm just not that complicated and I don't speak 1/2 my mind. Though sometimes I am pretty good at egging on an arguement just for the sport! But I honestly do believe LPNs get the shaft.

I am going to have to give my opinion on this one. I was an LPN for 4 years, then went back to school for my RN, and now have been for 6 years. I was never discriminated against, nor treated differently by RNs. I stood my ground. I am an awesome nurse and knew that. If there was something I didn't know, I found it out. I do the same thing today. I consulted with my peers, as a professional. I took orders as an LPN, and carried them out, but earned the respect of my coworkers. I do the same as an RN. I don't feel much has changed in my job. I give IV push medications, hang blood and TPN now, but my responsiblity to the patient and good care has not changed. I do have more responsibilty, by being the head nurse, but that comes with the degree. The pay, now that is the biggest difference, which I think the worst part. I make so much more as an RN, and I do believe I am worth it, but I was also worth it as an LPN. I think the LPN degree is kept is part of a corporate scam to hire cheaper, and not always better, nurses. Nursing is an individual effort. I also think all LPNS should go back to school if they think nursing is their calling, if for nothing else, the pay. :)

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