Are LPN's being phased out? - page 8

I know people have been saying for years that everyone would need a BSN and LPN's would be a thing of the past, etc. Well, so far, where I work (a large, magnet hospital) there are still many, many... Read More

  1. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    1
    Quote from MsApricot
    Hmm, I'm not sure if we are ahead or behind the rest of the world, but in Ireland we don't have LPNs at all (I had to Google it after I came here!!). Also, everyone must train by BSN, you can't practice in the country without the degree. I do like it this way, its not as confusing..!
    Learn your nursing history. SEN's were the equivalent of the LPN. They were phased out in the UK. The big difference is the UK paid for their education to upgrade to SRN. In North America, most LPNs fund their own education, so it's not that easy for many to fund a degree course. Oh, and many of the UK nurses lament the passing of the SEN and the trend to unregulated assistants.
    HazelLPN likes this.
  2. Visit  MsApricot profile page
    0
    Quote from Fiona59
    Learn your nursing history. SEN's were the equivalent of the LPN. They were phased out in the UK. The big difference is the UK paid for their education to upgrade to SRN. In North America, most LPNs fund their own education, so it's not that easy for many to fund a degree course. Oh, and many of the UK nurses lament the passing of the SEN and the trend to unregulated assistants.
    Learn your general history. Ireland is not part of the UK.
  3. Visit  Fiona59 profile page
    1
    Quote from MsApricot
    Learn your general history. Ireland is not part of the UK.
    Never said it was. I won't even get into the subject of Ulster.
    HazelLPN likes this.
  4. Visit  conroenurse profile page
    4
    while i to am tired of hearing this. i still bristle when i hear it. don't know why it irritates me as i truly am the one sitting here not going to school for an rn. (kids grown/etc/etc, no reason not too) i really think i am just on the lazy side when i am home from work and refuse to give nursing another thought! though i am the first in line to learn new things, do something i haven't done before, or challenge myself in other ways, i just don't want to go back to school for some reason. plus it doesn't hurt that most rn's i work with do not make more than a couple of bucks more than i do, so why? that said, lvn's/lpn's will never be phased out. insurance companies/healthcare businesses are going to pay the least they can. i have noticed that some new hosp. will start this "we hire only rn's" like one did here not too long ago, or some hosp. unit, but then soon as they get to where they can't staff/afford hours, the lvn's are there too. i have never been told i am not qualified for any job (sometimes unfor. on my part) but i will admit i am unusual as back when there was a real nursing shortage i was put into spots (with mentors) that most lvn's don't normally staff. i've been a charge nurse, supv. nurse, still work picu as my normal job, and crack up when i go to my prn psych job and not able to do an assessment. lol an rn doesn't do it because i can"t, i did it for years, and was told suddenly lvn"s just can"t do it. an rn has to do it because "it"s a rule" ivory towers get it into their heads what certain "titles/lic." should do and they make up these little rules, when the truth is, nursing is taught daily on the job. it is what the individual nurse knows not the title imo...
    and btw while talking abt those ivory tower nurses, i had the pleasure of educating one who kept calling a "stoma" a wound......(geez) (sigh), well at least she did learn something on the job today!
    DogWmn, HazelLPN, nursel56, and 1 other like this.
  5. Visit  Daly City RN profile page
    0
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I worked as an LVN in 1981 and to tell you the truth, I did not get much respect from RNs. One afternoon I heard my charge nurse and the nursing supervisor saying that they were short of "nurses" (meaning RNs) and not LVNs for the following shift. I used to be an LVN and I was not considered a "nurse"?

    I became an RN one year later and I got promoted to charge nurse is less than three months!

    By the year 2005 or so, they began phasing out the LVNs at the large San Francisco, California medical center where I used to work. In 2008, the year I retired from the medical center, most of the LVNs had been re-assigned to different roles (phlebotomists, clinic duties, delivering medications or were sent to our SNF). Less than 5 LVNs were left in all the in-patient units. Many of the other large hospitals here in the SF Bay Area are also phasing out their LVNs.

    Now I am a case manager and a nurse preceptor in home health care. We employ mostly RNs, PTs, OTs, STs and very few LVNs. We haven't hired a new LVN for quite sometime.

    Just telling the facts.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
  6. Visit  MsApricot profile page
    1
    Quote from Fiona59
    Never said it was. I won't even get into the subject of Ulster.
    If you know this then why post about the UK? My original post specifically referred to my own experience in Ireland, therefore your snappy retort about the UK was irrelevant.
    Nccity2002 likes this.
  7. Visit  Daly City RN profile page
    0
    [quote=conroenurse;5068919]while i to am tired of hearing this. i still bristle when i hear it. don't know why it irritates me as i truly am the one sitting here not going to school for an rn. (kids grown/etc/etc, no reason not too) i really think i am just on the lazy side when i am home from work and refuse to give nursing another thought! though i am the first in line to learn new things, do something i haven't done before, or challenge myself in other ways, i just don't want to go back to school for some reason. plus it doesn't hurt that most rn's i work with do not make more than a couple of bucks more than i do, so why?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>

    not the case here in the san francisco bay area though. with all due respect to the lvns, over here rns earn much more than lvns. therefore it is worth going back to school to earn your rn degree for those who plan to work in sf, ca.

    many of the rns here (working in large hospitals) with enough seniority now earn as much a $140,000+ per year (nursing supervisors earn over $200,000 per year!). the starting salary for rns is around $95,000 per year. over their entire nursing career, rns can easily out-earn lvns by over $1million!

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
  8. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    0
    Quote from Daly City RN
    . . .Now I am a case manager and a nurse preceptor in home health care. We employ mostly RNs, PTs, OTs, STs and very few LVNs. We haven't hired a new LVN for quite sometime.

    Just telling the facts.
    The facts are the only things that matter when people are considering which route to take. There are very few scenarios I can visualize where a staged approach would benefit a person, but there are people who's life circumstances make it imperative that they get out into the workforce as soon as possible - and $18-20/hr at an LTC or PDN job while studying for your RN isn't peanuts when the alternative is the local fast food establishment.

    Trust me-- when I suddenly became a single mom the peace of mind having that LVN license gave me was immense. Every nursing hopeful has a unique story to tell. We need to keep our eyes open, and realize that the actions of corporations, or the experiences of one person do not and should never disparage the quality of nursing care we give.

    As I mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all RN workforce - it's too expensive. Who will be doing those things that can be delegated? Do they have any education in the nursing process? What kind of liability will the RN have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? What will the RN:CNA ratio look like on a unit?

    I don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an LPN takes care of them. Nobody practices in a bubble.
  9. Visit  blessnme profile page
    0
    this is happening in my area....no one is hiring LPN's.
  10. Visit  SunSurfRN profile page
    0
    Quote from nursel56
    The facts are the only things that matter when people are considering which route to take. There are very few scenarios I can visualize where a staged approach would benefit a person, but there are people who's life circumstances make it imperative that they get out into the workforce as soon as possible - and $18-20/hr at an LTC or PDN job while studying for your RN isn't peanuts when the alternative is the local fast food establishment.

    Trust me-- when I suddenly became a single mom the peace of mind having that LVN license gave me was immense. Every nursing hopeful has a unique story to tell. We need to keep our eyes open, and realize that the actions of corporations, or the experiences of one person do not and should never disparage the quality of nursing care we give.

    As I mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all RN workforce - it's too expensive. Who will be doing those things that can be delegated? Do they have any education in the nursing process? What kind of liability will the RN have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? What will the RN:CNA ratio look like on a unit?

    I don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an LPN takes care of them. Nobody practices in a bubble.
    They would be happy to have an all RN workforce if they can dilute the market with enough RNs. Then the LVNs won't get "phased out" (but will defacto) and the RNs will earn alot less.
  11. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    2
    Quote from SunSurfRN
    They would be happy to have an all RN workforce if they can dilute the market with enough RNs. Then the LVNs won't get "phased out" (but will defacto) and the RNs will earn alot less.
    The wages of an RN would have to go unacceptably low levels to justify the time/effort expended to get a BSN when compared to the cost of hiring . . .1 RN and 8 CNAs. I've read quite a few posts from CNAs talking about how they are being trained to do nursing tasks of increasing levels of complexity that would have been unheard of not so long ago.

    A common complaint about LPNs is that they can only "gather data" for the RN to assess. We are "task" oriented and not taught the critical thinking skills and NANDA dx the RN has. We can't educate patients or do care plans. Those things are not true (except NANDA dx), but they are true of UAPs.

    When bean counters look at it - I believe they will continue to expand the CNA role without giving them a raise, or a nominal raise. Most of them want to learn more advanced procedures.

    Based on the attitude of a lot of people I read here, they would not want to spend their time dealing with Code Browns, emptying Foley bags, transferring people in Hoyer lifts, and many of the other basic tasks normally done by CNAs. Some nurses (me included!) love the primary care nurse model and doing everything for their fewer patients. I don't see that happening anymore except in Critical Care units.

    I want to emphasize the point that I know many RNs don't differentiate a simple task from a more complex, as all of it is historically the purview of nurses. It's just that in recent years I've seen the reason given drift away from efficiency to an attitude that the better educated nurse is "above" the tasks, as evidenced by nurses saying they call housekeeping to clean a few drops of urine on a toilet rim that was spilled while removing a "hat".
    Last edit by nursel56 on May 2, '11
    HazelLPN and Fiona59 like this.
  12. Visit  Daly City RN profile page
    0
    as i mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all rn workforce - it's too expensive. who will be doing those things that can be delegated? do they have any education in the nursing process? what kind of liability will the rn have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? what will the rn:cna ratio look like on a unit?

    i don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an lpn takes care of them. nobody practices in a bubble.[/quote]

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    i have news for you, the all-rn workforce is already being phased in, or the all-rn workforce is now a fact in many of the large hospitals here in the san francisco bay area. lvns have been re-assigned and no new lvns are being hired.

    it may take some time for the rest of the country to follow our lead, but the fact of the matter is that all-rn workforces will become more and more common in many parts oof the united states.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  13. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    0
    Quote from daly city rn
    as i mentioned a while back -- there will not be an all rn workforce - it's too expensive. who will be doing those things that can be delegated? do they have any education in the nursing process? what kind of liability will the rn have when his or her only helpers have only a few weeks of education? what will the rn:cna ratio look like on a unit?

    i don't think it tells enough of the story to point out (regardless of veracity) that patients have poorer outcomes when an lpn takes care of them. nobody practices in a bubble.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    i have news for you, the all-rn workforce is already being phased in, or the all-rn workforce is now a fact in many of the large hospitals here in the san francisco bay area. lvns have been re-assigned and no new lvns are being hired.

    it may take some time for the rest of the country to follow our lead, but the fact of the matter is that all-rn workforces will become more and more common in many parts oof the united states.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    i guess cnas need to worry about their jobs too, then. i hadn't heard that hospitals in no cal planned to go to the primary care model across the board. it's especially surprising to hear as california is so far behind the rest of the country in climbing out of this $%#$#$ recession, that they will be paying bsns to to do the baths, linen changes, toileting, etc since some people become rns to avoid that.

    how many patients will the rn typically have to do total care on?

    and by the way, your "i have news for you" remark was totally unnecessary.
    Last edit by nursel56 on May 3, '11


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