Are LPN/LVNs a dying breed? - page 4

Hi all.... I know this topic has probably been around before, but I was hoping some of you seasoned LPNs could comment on what you think about the future of LPN/LVN nursing. I'm planning to... Read More

  1. by   msdobson
    Quote from feisty_lpn
    KP has 11 facilities in the Cleveland area and there are only 6 LPN positions open.
    How many are EMPLOYED?
  2. by   niteshiftlvn07
    after reading some of the post I would agree that the hospitals seem to prefer rn's and cna's over lvn's. Hospital admin. is cutting corners by phasing out lvn positions, hiring more med aides, "nurse techs", med asst.'s, and any other low cost solution to the nursing shortage. If lvn's were phased out I think the number of lawsuits would skyrocket due to the decreased quality of care (hate to dissapoint ya but cna's dont have licenses and arent much help when 1 pt. is coding and they cant start ya i.v's or do your admit/discharge paperwork.) I'm not saying that rn's and other allied health care professionals are incompetent, but there aren't enough nurses to go around and the wages in certain areas isnt keeping up with the cost of living. I was watching a news program and they said that after KATRINA the louisiana hospitals were hiring foreign nurses.It also doesnt help when many college students major in higher paying degree programs.It would be nice if they would offer more incentives$$$ for nurses to work in certain specialties or to work in rural/underserved areas.
  3. by   msdobson
    Quote from BigB
    A grand total of 3 opening for the Sacramento area and no fulltime positions. On call posistions require a person to have a second job. Any luck with Sutter or UC Davis?
    No.

    *Sigh* You're enjoying this, arent you, B? :trout:
  4. by   msdobson
    Quote from niteshiftlvn07
    after reading some of the post I would agree that the hospitals seem to prefer rn's and cna's over lvn's. Hospital admin. is cutting corners by phasing out lvn positions, hiring more med aides, "nurse techs", med asst.'s, and any other low cost solution to the nursing shortage. If lvn's were phased out I think the number of lawsuits would skyrocket due to the decreased quality of care (hate to dissapoint ya but cna's dont have licenses and arent much help when 1 pt. is coding and they cant start ya i.v's or do your admit/discharge paperwork.) I'm not saying that rn's and other allied health care professionals are incompetent, but there aren't enough nurses to go around and the wages in certain areas isnt keeping up with the cost of living. I was watching a news program and they said that after KATRINA the louisiana hospitals were hiring foreign nurses.It also doesnt help when many college students major in higher paying degree programs.It would be nice if they would offer more incentives$$$ for nurses to work in certain specialties or to work in rural/underserved areas.

    Hell, yeah. I plan on BEING an RN, but I find myself sticking up for the LVNs all across this (and other) nursing boards.

    Look, I can understand BOTH sides of the issue here, but it seems we're cutting our noses off to spite our faces. :angryfire

    Shouldn't there be some kind of middle ground? I mean if I were an RN, I would THINK that having an LVN around to lighten the load would be great. God knows, every time you turn around there is an article or newscast bemoaning the "nursing shortage."

    And we're GETTING RID of nurses?!

    Good solution.
    Last edit by msdobson on May 12, '07
  5. by   msdobson
    B, take a look at this article...

    http://news.nurse.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...3/CriticalCare
  6. by   msdobson
    BigB

    Now that we are such close personal friends :kiss should I continue to call you B?

    Bob?
    Bill?
    Burt?
    Bart?


    ...Belinda? :roll

    Mike
  7. by   BigB
    Quote from msdobson

    The article is good news to LPN's in the Baltimore area : "At Union Memorial Hospital in Baltimore, Md., nursing administration is outspoken about the important role of LPNs, who participate as valuable members of the care delivery team on every med/surg unit."

    I have not seen similar statements from northern California hospital administrators to give me any hope that LVN's have much future outside LTC here in northern CA. On the contray, I see us LVN's being forced to work only in the LTC, with less and less options outside the nursing home. Yes, we will be needed greatly in the future, as the baby boomers start retiring in record numbers. But in northern california, it won't be in acute nursing.
    Last edit by BigB on May 14, '07
  8. by   kgkarma
    Quote from jaacosmom
    I think there alot of hospitals that are trying to phase out LPN/LVNs. And our main work places do tend to be LTC facilities, DRs offices, prisons, etc.However, there is to big of a demand for nurses tp completely phase out LPN/LVNs. We may not be able to do as much as RNs but we can take alot of the work load an RN does have. We are less expensive than RNs to hire and are there for more cost effective. Basically I think there are too many places we can be utilized for us to be phased out.

    I think hospitals would be smart to start utilizing LPN/LVNs in a more patient care/ cost effective manner. For instance why not have one RN over over a couple of LPNs who have an aide or two working with them. Each RN could have say 6-10 patients with each LPN having 3-6. IN my state the only thing a LPN can't do is like the others. No IVs, no pronouncing dead,and that is about it. So the main thing the RN would have to do is the IVs, care plans. What do you all think?? Does that not make any sense?? Ideas, thoughts, criticisms (be gentle I bruise) welcome.
    I'm in my last semester of LPN school in N.C. and we are learning how to do peripheral IV's in clinical. We cannot do IV to a PICC line. Other than that, we are doing it all.

    Yesterday I went to ED and there were LPN's working there. They do not work in the acute area of the ER on a regular basis but will work in there during rotation if needed.
  9. by   dschueler
    Quote from jaacosmom
    I think there alot of hospitals that are trying to phase out LPN/LVNs. And our main work places do tend to be LTC facilities, DRs offices, prisons, etc.However, there is to big of a demand for nurses tp completely phase out LPN/LVNs. We may not be able to do as much as RNs but we can take alot of the work load an RN does have. We are less expensive than RNs to hire and are there for more cost effective. Basically I think there are too many places we can be utilized for us to be phased out.

    I think hospitals would be smart to start utilizing LPN/LVNs in a more patient care/ cost effective manner. For instance why not have one RN over over a couple of LPNs who have an aide or two working with them. Each RN could have say 6-10 patients with each LPN having 3-6. IN my state the only thing a LPN can't do is like the others. No IVs, no pronouncing dead,and that is about it. So the main thing the RN would have to do is the IVs, care plans. What do you all think?? Does that not make any sense?? Ideas, thoughts, criticisms (be gentle I bruise) welcome.

    I saw that I answered this thread before....seems that when it comes back around it still incenses me to no end!! LOL

    I always like the military's way of doing things. You see, medics and hospital aides are trained by the military...usually by (NCLEX approved teachers who are in the military).

    When my hubby was active duty he was a pilot. One of the rules is that a military member cannot sue another military base or doc. So, to start with, there is no risk of a lawsuit hanging over their heads, and also no lawsuits mean less costs to the patients and tax payers. In the military hospital, I was a tech, a nursing student, and they allowed me to observe and scrub in for C-Sections, and basically did whatever the RN on duty told me to do. I was allowed to catch the babies and take them to the NICU, and process the newborns. I could give the Vita K+ shots, and the silver nitrate gel in their eyes. I would give each baby his/her first bath, and take the baby to visit mom, and teach mom how to breast feed. I loved working there, and I got more experience than from any classroom or clinical I ever attended. They had their own training manuals, and after a year, I was treated as one of the med. techs, who were LPN's. I did not give any meds, since I was not a nurse, but they let me do the shots, with the RN standing right by me. See, there was no chance of suing, the patients cannot sue the military....they really could, but it is difficult. I think technically the military member cannot sue, but the spouse or family of a military member can, but usually don't unless it is something grossly negligent.

    I loved, loved working there, and I did it as a volunteer only. It was during the first Gulf War, and all the nurses were sent overseas, so a bunch of us ladies who lived on base volunteered at the hospital.

    I loved it! I would do I&O's and draw blood, go to the lab, get results and just all the basic stuff. My favorite part was taking the babies to the moms and teaching the moms how to care for their newborns. The parents both had to watch a mandatory video in the nursery about bathing and newborn cord care and circumcision care.

    If in the civilian world, the hospitals would use LPNs to do patient care and all things an RN would do except hanging blood, and giving IV push narcotics, and other non LPN things like that. If we were able to do what we are trained to do....assess, patient care plans, and then deliver those plans...but under the direct supervision of an RN....like letting her okay the care plans and such, and if there were like 4 LPN/LVNs on a floor with 2 RNs and 3 or 4 aides, I think a higher quality of care can be given. The RNs won't be as stressed out and can do the higher demanding jobs and patient care, and the LPNs can become more autonomous while still being overseen by RNs and Doctors.

    It just seems that hospitals are forgetting that LVN/LPNs ARE NURSES too!!! Why call us a nurse if they are not going to utilize us as nurses? If they can pay us $25/hr instead of the $40/hr for an RN, then if I were running the hospitals, I would hire more LPNs and could utilize them in a lot more areas that don't require the higher knowledge and I bet the employees and patients would be happier!! Patients would see that a nurse is actually caring for them, and aides too. Their medications would get to them on time and other bedside nursing could be done, more 1 on 1 care can be given, and less charting and paperwork!!

    Hospitals would save a ton of money, but it just amazes me how stupid they all are!! Cutting their noses off in spite of themselves!!

    When they hire the RNs and LPNs/LVNs, they could put them all through a training program to teach them how to distribute the care, and define the areas and that way, they are teaching them what they want done, and less litigation would occur. Kinda an orientation of sorts and have the hospital make sure LPNs can start IVs, do the tests required, make sure they are IV certified, and also vents, and other things.....

    I just love sitting around coming up with new ideas!! Like anyone will read them and like it will make a difference, haha!!!

    Anywho, I was dreaming just then, better wake up!!

    Happy Saturday Everyone!!

    Deb

    Think so??
  10. by   Fiona59
    You've just described how PNs work at my hospital here in Canada. We work under our own license and insurance. The only difference between the RN and myself on my floor is the blood hanging and due to facility policy only RNs can start and hang IV medications. Oh and $12/hr.
  11. by   dschueler
    Quote from Fiona59
    You've just described how PNs work at my hospital here in Canada. We work under our own license and insurance. The only difference between the RN and myself on my floor is the blood hanging and due to facility policy only RNs can start and hang IV medications. Oh and $12/hr.

    Will that even buy a tank of gas?? Not here!! Is it worth even getting up to go to work for? In and Out Burger here starts at $10.25/hr...no experience!!

    WOW!
  12. by   Fiona59
    Nah, the difference in pay rates is $12/hr. New grad PN starts at $17+change. Thats for unionized hospital/facility nurses. It's lower for both RNs and PNs in the private sector (mainly Dr. offices and medicentres)
  13. by   nursingstudent30
    I am in LPN school. Here in Louisiana...the demand for LPN's has gotten really big since hurricane Katrina. In certain areas like ER, ICU....they are the unit secretaries...so they can take orders...they dont use them on the floor. We can do most things...except hang blood and IV pushes. My instructor has been teaching for almost 30 years...and she says the same thing...they have been trying to get LPN's out for years....and she doesnt think it will happen anytime soon. Though in the House of Representative RIGHT NOW....is a new bill to allow CNA's to take a course to be able to administer meds. They say its the lobbyist with the LTC facilities that are pushing it because of cheaper pay!! The sad part is that the LPN/RN is still going to be responsible....because the CNA wont be licensed!! I am not sure I want to be responsible for something as important as medication administration that another person has done!!! Who knows what will be waiting when I graduate next May!!!

    Cathy

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