Is this the beginning of the end of the NHS?

oxford_girl · Nov 28, 2010

Just thinking about that as well.

In one Hospital Trust, there is a plan now of replacing Band 5 RN's with Band 4 posts. If a Band 5 will retire/leave, a Band 4 posts will be created.

allnurses Guide · Nov 28, 2010

Just thinking about that as well.
In one Hospital Trust, there is a plan now of replacing Band 5 RN's with Band 4 posts. If a Band 5 will retire/leave, a Band 4 posts will be created.

I take it these band 4 s will be unqualified staff, I worry about what we delegate to our support staff already

oxford_girl · Nov 28, 2010

Indeed, Band 4 staff are currently AHP.

However, I can see the possibility that if push comes to shove, some newly qualified nurses might be force to take Band 4 posts if they cannot find Band 5 posts (especially if there is no Band 5 jobs are being opened)

ZippyGBR, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2010

the key issues with private run provider units is that the contracts with the commissioners need to be written properly - this is where the issue arises most of the time

financial decisions will be less of an issue as like a well constructed PFI contract the provider MUST meet the obligations of their contract rather than the situation we currently see where things are let slide to save money

remember that Stafford was an 'Ordinary' NHS Trust that wanted to become a foundation trust ...

saving money on staffing by diluting skill mix has been disproven again and again the current target for money saving is band 6 and 7 staff in team leadership roles who aren't proving their worth.

allnurses Guide · Dec 3, 2010

Ive recently read the Stafford enquiry report, it made harrowing reading. Anyone who hasn't read it and works in heathcare should read it.

BILLIE39 · Dec 4, 2010

The NHS is such a terrible place to work these days.

If you are sick you are sent to a disciplinary. Its funny in England we think we have the right to threaten people back to the workplace even when genuinely sick

allnurses Guide · Dec 5, 2010

Billie I'm guessing that your policies are not so different to the ones we (and other trusts use). My understanding is that its capability rather than disciplinary process and it's a very long process which can take up to 2 years.

I have to be honest, I'm rarely sick from work but I have had to take long term sick a few years ago, I was dealt with really well and redeployed to an area I could cope with the physical work with until my health improved.

ZippyGBR, BSN, RN · Dec 5, 2010

The NHS is such a terrible place to work these days.
If you are sick you are sent to a disciplinary. Its funny in England we think we have the right to threaten people back to the workplace even when genuinely sick

It's not a disciplinary in policy i am aware of ... although eventually the attendance management process can result in a capability hearing over attendance which may result in dismissal, and capability hearings are generally pretty heavily weighted in the favour of the staff member rather than management especially if the management response at any point has not been strictly to the letter of the law and policy.

Reapeated unauthorisaed absences or absences sustained by self certificates but following a particular pattern could become a disciplinary matter , but you would have to exhaust all routes to make sure other things were not the cause before making that kind of accusation in a discip sense as it could result in a defamation suit against the trust.

People are all too quick to call any kind of formal process 'disciplinary' ... unless you are served with an accusation of misconduct and hearing conducted under the disciplinary process for misconduct it's not a discip ...